Ep 58 - Decluttering in the Age of Perfection: Featuring Melissa Gugni
Affiliate Disclosure: Some of our links are affiliate links, meaning that at no additional cost to you, I will earn a commission if you click through and make a purchase.
Hey there, friends! Welcome to another exciting episode. Today, I'm thrilled to introduce you to my dear friend, Melissa Gugni. Melissa is no ordinary professional organizer; she's a true expert in decluttering, and she proudly serves the San Francisco Bay Area. Her remarkable work has earned her recognition in publications like Better Homes and Gardens, Parents Magazine, and Apartment Therapy.
Melissa and I go way back. We first connected in a network of organizers and have had some great conversations over the years. I've even passed on some referrals to her when the job was a bit out of my reach. She's simply fantastic at what she does, and I can't wait for you to hear our chat. So stay tuned for this inspiring conversation!
You can listen right here, on Apple, Amazon, Spotify or you can read the transcription below. Enjoy!
Carly: Hey friend, welcome to another episode. I'm excited today because I'm bringing you a conversation with my pal, Melissa Gugni. She is a professional organizer and a decluttering expert who serves the San Francisco Bay Area. Her work has been featured in Better Homes and Gardens, Parents Magazine, and Apartment Therapy, and she and I met in an organizer network that we're both a part of and have chatted about different things over the years. I've given her referrals that are a little too far for me. She's an amazing organizer. So I'm very excited to bring you this conversation.
Welcome, Melissa.
Melissa: Thank you so much for having me, Carly. This is great.
Carly: Thank you so much for being here.
Meet Melissa Gugni: Professional Organizer and Decluttering Specialist
Before we dive into today's topic, can you share with us how you got started and a little about your business?
Melissa: Yeah, so my business is called Melissa Gugni Organizing, and I've been in business for about five years, and it's always fuzzy to say that because I started long before that just doing it because I love to do it. I would hear someone needed help, it was like, oh, I can do that. I also own a wine bar and a wine and cheese shop in San Francisco, and I've had businesses before that.
So I've been an entrepreneur for 20 years. It's pretty much all I've ever done. And I think organizing my other businesses forayed itself very easily into being able to think on my feet as a professional organizer now.
Carly: I love that so much and of course I love hearing about your tales in the city because I was there for 15 years and yeah, I remember as soon as we met you let me know that you were in SF. A lot of the time I was, my heart was very happy. Oh, yay. So these days what is your favorite type of client or project to work on, would you say?
Melissa: I think I can swear on this podcast. My favorite client is not an asshole. That's a little harsh, but I love to work with really great people, with nice people, because I like to say, I don't like to be bossed around and I don't want to be in a position to boss anyone around.
I want it to be a collaborative experience because that's really what organizing is. It's your home or office. I'm just there to help facilitate the change. It's a cheeseball answer, but that is my favorite kind of client because I love doing all different types of organizing work.
It's something that makes me happy about this industry. Every day is different. Love kitchens, but if I'm doing a ton of them, it's like, oh yeah, it's great. Now do a nice paperwork project and just sit and not be dirty and then be in the garage and get dirty again. I enjoy all of it.
Carly: That's awesome. I feel you are no assholes. That's a really good type of client to be working with, but it does make it go faster when you guys can, have nice conversations and just feel that ease between you because it is collaborative and we are also like, physically in spaces that a lot of people don't have others see often. So that makes it so much more, it's just a whole lot easier if everybody is just feeling very comfortable and easily breezy.
Melissa: Yeah, so true. It's a thing of beauty when you have that trust and comfort and it doesn't always happen that way. And you can still do great work when it's not, it's got a little things here and there, but sometimes working with a client and you're so in sync, it's like, wow, this is incredible.
And everyone's just achieving their dreams.
Carly: Yeah. It really can feel magical sometimes.
Melissa: Yes.
Carly: Love.
Self-Care and Self-Acceptance in Organization
Okay, you reached out to me about this topic, which, when you mentioned it, I was all aboard. So today we're talking about self-care and self-acceptance while we're organizing how it comes up and why it's so important.
And I know you have much to say about why this came up for you. We'll just be having a conversation today, but I'm just going to let you have the floor and kick it off.
Melissa: Yeah, thank you. It's something that I have been on a journey as an organizer. Even reflecting on this topic today, I thought, I used to be a lot more rigid, even in how I thought about organizing in my own home.
And now that I'm in so many people's lives, and we're all so different, and what our needs are so different, well, perfection is, forget that. But even that, comparison or I've seen this in a magazine and I love things that give influence and, we all are in different places. But I think a lot of that is just making people feel worse.
And organizing, in my opinion, in its highest self, is supposed to help you, and that's not supposed to make you feel bad, or it's not about having, if you're gonna get outside help, an organizer coming in and saying, We're just gonna throw all this stuff away, now it's red, orange, yellow, green, and have fun in your new home!
Carly: Yeah, bye!
The Illusion of Perfection on Social Media
Melissa: Right, yeah, good luck keeping up with that. That's just not doable. I'd say for most people, I'd love to get your take on that, but unless you've got, I always think, the Kardashians are the ones we see on Instagram. It looks incredible. They also have multiple homes and tons of people running those homes.
You look in those pantries with the color-coordinated fruit. It's like, nobody's eating this. They throw it away one day and then they bring in more.
Carly: I have to tell you, I was recording a podcast episode two days ago. It'll probably be the episode that comes out right before this one. And We were talking, they brought up that same example, and I was just like, yes!
We both zeroed in on like the Oreo cookie example, how it's always this beautiful glass jar, and if you haven't seen it, like, just know that this is Annoying organizers left and right, I'm really glad I'm not the only one, because they're all stacked in beautiful circles, and it's just, it's a thing of beauty, but it should belong in, a museum, it's not reasonable for, Living your life and I completely agree.
I've seen some videos about a fridge organization, where, to your point, every fruit has like a different bin and everything fits perfectly and everything's stacked perfectly and someone was doing a restock video, and the person who was reacting to it, I remember one of the things that they said just really sticks out to me and they're like, oh, you're just really making me feel like shit right now, aren't you?
And I was like, that's so true. It's, a lot of it can go beyond inspiring and beyond aspirational and just feel so out of reach that it can turn into hopelessness, is what I've heard from other people. They feel like they can't see the air quotes at home, quote unquote can't get organized because, Maybe the result isn't gonna look like what on Instagram, on TikTok.
Maybe you're starting from a different place. Maybe you don't need to... Color code, your fridge fruit, you need to clean your fridge out for the first time in a year and a half, and you don't know what's back there, and it's causing you a lot of stress and anxiety but you're nervous to get to that mystery smell.
Like, I feel like that is more realistic, and more what a lot of folks that I... Talk to or dealing with versus like, let's take it from a 9 to an 11.
Melissa: I agree with what you're saying, and I see that that does bring in the, the hopelessness or the atrophy, like, how good can a normal person's refrigerator look?
It's filled with leftovers. I think when I see those things on Instagram, I always see comments like, where do you put the leftovers when it's all color-coded? Yeah. How much time and energy do you have to devote to this? But that doesn't mean cleaning that refrigerator out or organizing it in a way that works for you and the people who live there.
Isn't going to be life-changing. I think it's just kind of changing, changing the goals. Mm hmm. Those goals are just so big for average people. And even super-average people. Let's say people that don't have live-in help.
Carly: Yeah. I tell people all the time that there are certain systems that I see online.
I'm like, listen, my household has two adults and a dog. And I do this for a living, and I can't be bothered to do that. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm not saying I have all the time in the world, but I do know that I am blessed with more time than many people just because there are fewer responsibilities in my life.
But if this is my favorite thing to do, and I don't want to do it, Like, know that you are not alone, and it's totally fine to take a lot of these ideas, just throw them right out the window, and say, that's not gonna happen, and let's think about the much, much, much, much, much more simple version of that, that fits in with my life, and is easy to keep up with, versus is.
Super complicated.
Melissa: Yeah, yes, absolutely, and I think about that also with I guess the commercial aspect of it, right? If you're on social media, you're anywhere in the world. The Container Store wants to sell you this thing that's supposed to be so simple and organize your life, or target, or, you name the place.
And not to say that those things can't be useful, but we're talking about the stuff that has to be done before you bring those things in. And... I think, to your point, I have a fairly organized home, I am an organizer, it's certainly not perfect, but I think that a lot of people are like, oh, you must have every new gadget on the market, and it's like, actually, I do not, because a lot of that stuff, it's like, oh, yeah, sure, that's a little, that's clever, but you're the one that, I can't give a good example of the second, but like, Ooh, I have one.
Who would stock all those things? Yes, please tell me.
Carly: You know I see this on social media all the time. It's like, you'll have your saran wraps and things in a drawer and then it's labeled and every, it has like wooden slots for everything. That doesn't. Make sense in my house. And also, those organizers don't fit every drawer.
Not all drawers are created equal. So measure before you buy, guys. I know I say this all the time. I'm a record. Measure before you buy. And know that you need it. It's very important. But that doesn't work for me as far as prioritizing what goes where in my home and the place where those items need to live is actually on a shelf and pretty high up.
Because I don't use them. All the time. I'm more likely to use, like, leftover containers or something. Anyway, the point is, they're in a clear bin, and if anyone cares, it's a Brightroom bin from Target that used to be on a different line, and they renamed it, and it's like... 9x14 or something. And anyway, that's where they all are and I just keep a smaller stock of them so I don't have extra boxes of any saran wraps really because it would just be an overstuffed box.
It's like when this one is running low then we get a new one and that keeps me sane because if I had more they wouldn't fit in the container and then I would just be stressed out about where to keep the back stock and I can't be bothered. So anyway, rant. But one example of things that I see online, and I'm like that's beautiful, and I'm just going to keep on scrolling.
Melissa: Yeah, and I've seen them used, right? I hate to even say this, but my husband got one for our house in Healdsburg, and it was like... How dare he? Okay, but we had enough space for it, and we don't use a lot of those supplies, because that's the other thing. You get a really big thing of saran wrap, it doesn't fit in there.
It's just all of the measuring things. Don't get me started. You're right. And I think being in the city in the Bay Area, I'm in smaller homes that don't necessarily have all of that room for those types of things. So it just ends up causing more problems than it's worth. But yeah, looking at your life and what you need might not include the most beautiful, shiny product or system.
And that's great. I think sometimes because I could, I, I don't know, again, I'd love to hear from another organizer about this. I feel like people who hire me are people who love organizing, because they love it enough to want to hire help, and they love organizing products. So I've done the product.
Not fully, but a lot of things in people's homes, because it's like, this is impossible. You can't have a bin for, in my opinion, a bin for every single toiletry item. You've got 30 bins in there that are all, and it's so intricately done. It's like, I don't recommend this. Now, maybe somebody can do it and do it great and go for it.
But the amount of maintenance to that is, it gives me a headache.
Carly: Yeah, I give examples all the time. In my home, we have a bin that has indoor tools. So probably a few things to hang pictures and some extra hooks and that sort of thing. And it's just, I think it says household tools, tools on it.
And I throw it all into this medium-sized bin, and that's good for me, but I know that there are other people, to your point, that might want more of a toolbox, where you open a lid, and you're sliding out the compartments, and every little thing has its teeny tiny compartment, and my brain does not work that way, and I, I wouldn't put things back if it was that complicated so I, I encourage people, if you're the toolbox compartment type of person, you Go for it. But my default when I'm working with clients isn't to start there because for most people I think that is going to be way too much effort and too specific in the moment when you're putting away things. I think you're more likely to leave it on the side of the toolbox and start a pile because putting it away was like an extra step instead of lifting a lid and throwing it in and running away.
Melissa: Yes, that's a great example. And I think back to the topic of self-acceptance, I think that that is self-acceptance of saying, yeah, okay, maybe my ideal life, my idealized self would be the type that puts all the little things back in there. You get the Ikea stuff and you're putting the things in, but that's just not day-to-day for me.
And that's okay. That's okay. Throw in that little bit, and I bring this up a lot for a lot of different projects, but the time it takes to do that, I then need to find something once a year, once every six months, right, the saying? Hot time cost analysis?
Yes, for me that just doesn't add up. It's like, okay, and I'm like that, I have pretty radical ideas about filing, you. But for myself, and I own four businesses, a lot of stuff just goes in one folder, very cold, because I don't need to go back there to get things. And it's so much time to have to put them all in different things.
I figured this out about 10 years ago and it was life-changing. Because I can say, maybe once a year I have to go through, and maybe it takes an hour instead of taking five minutes. But how many hours did I save the whole year?
Carly: Yeah, I do have very few files for work. There's one that's like operations, one that is contracts, one that's archive marketing.
So if I get new marketing items, I'll drop an old business card in there so I can see how I've changed. And then every month has its own... Receipt folder. That's only because I end up doing a lot of returns, as I'm sure you do too. Yeah, that makes sense. Having it there to be able to go through less works out for me, but at the end of the year, then they're all going together, just in case I get audited or something, and then...
I'm reusing the same, like, I don't keep those folders every year. They just get condensed.
Challenging the Myth of Perfection: Real vs. Ideal
Carly: Are there any organizing systems that you've had at home that used to be more complicated and now you've simplified for yourself over the years where you're like, I can't, I don't care because I'd love to hear it.
Melissa: That's a really good question because in thinking of how I help people and people coming from all different places too, right? We mentioned NeuroDivergent, ADHD, and a lot of clients that would be on, on that. I think that's organizing. It's cool. I think a lot of people's therapists and doctors are encouraging them to get home organizers.
Oh yeah. I'm hearing that a lot more lately from inquiry calls, which is fantastic. Yep. So I think. Oftentimes, and it's certainly not limited to people with ADHD or neurodivergence, I think deconstructing the system can be part of the process, because again, those perfect systems that are impossible to deal with or maintain, where it's like, so why are we doing this? And maybe, and maybe they're like, or they're like my mom did it that way and I'm just, okay, that's cool. And so how, how else do we do it? And so I bring that up first just to say in my own home, I'm, I'm lucky. My husband's a pretty neat person and we live in a very small apartment.
So we need to be, and he has this drawer that everything ends up in the drawer, the junk drawer. It's his drawer though. And I remember he asked me a few years ago. It's like, I just, I don't know how to deal with this drawer. It was like, okay go through it, and let's find the places where the receipts go and the change goes and the, and that lasted for a couple of weeks and then it was a huge mess again.
And so we looked at it again and kind of did a little differently and it got to be a mess again. And I was like, why are we trying to like to hone this in? How about this is just your mess drawer, but we look at it or you look at it once a month or once every two months and just accept it. I think there's some real power to that.
I'm just saying if the system's not working for me, maybe it's just not a good system. Mm hmm. Maybe we can start asking why, I'm working with a family right now, and that's coming up because both the mom and the dad have, as they put it, issues with clothes. Like not hanging their clothes up, or I think that always that tricky thing of, I wore it, but it's not dirty, I'm gonna wear it again, I gotta hang it up, and I'm not, so there are piles on the floor, and, and we're, I think the first thing of saying what if we deconstructed this and created space for you to put your pile there because to be at each other's throats saying, why don't you hang out? You don't, you hear and I get it, but maybe, that's just asking too much. They've got two young kids. They're working a lot. Like maybe that is just too much.
Carly: I love it. I love it. I have a client who we recently were talking about kind of the same type of things because the cog in her laundry system is truly putting it away.
She doesn't enjoy folding clothes. She really, it's one of her least favorite things to do in life. And you end up living out of your laundry baskets as you do, which, for the record, if anyone is listening to this and thinking they're the only one who does, you're not. No, not.
You're not at all. And it's okay. And it's fine. So what we came up with was essentially just abandoning folding as much as she wanted and moving, getting her some extra storage but just moving into some open stacked bins so that she can have shirts together and find what she needs when she needs it and put it away easily.
But just let go of folding. Because if you haven't been folding, and you don't like to fold, and you don't care about it, then like, let's just lean in and figure out a system that works for you so that you can have things as easily, as easily accessible as possible. Only because, like the laundry baskets end up blocking the dresser, so then it's just a, um, like a domino effect.
But, yeah, talking about The path of least resistance, really, and solutions that work for you, specifically.,
Melissa: And I'm not a therapist, as I say, I just play one on TV.
I would also encourage when those things come up because I've had to think about this myself, where did these ideas come from? Like, who says that everything needs to be folded, or what? I don't think most people fold their underwear, but some people think that you have to. So where did these ideas come from?
Was that something that you picked up just because that's how you were raised, and that's how you feel adults should behave? To think who cares? if people are in, it's in your room, and that's the place that you want to be able to have a system that is piled up on a chair or laundry being just stuffed into drawers or however you do it, it doesn't have to be anybody else's business too, and I think that thing of like, oh, my mother in law comes over and sees this and it's like, it's your bedroom. It's your life. If this is what works for you, that's great. You don't need to beat yourself up about one more thing. Laundry is tough, and I think for people who have lots of children, it just never ends.
And I see there is a doom spiral for many people. Again, you're so right. You are not alone. Specific to laundry, finding the path of least resistance, and I have to share this because I thought this was genius. The idea of, and I get that not everybody's in a position to be able to hire outside help, but if you are getting a cleaner that is open to being flexible with what you need, maybe you don't need someone to come clean your house every month or every two weeks or however, or you'd like that, but maybe that's not in the cards, but maybe you can have somebody come and just fold and put laundry away.
That is a possibility. There are a lot of things available to us in 2023, if that's so stressful or causing a lot of issues in your relationship, as my friend likes to remind me, Hey, it's probably cheaper than a divorce.
Carly: One of my clients says it's cheaper than marriage counseling.
Melissa: Right?
Yeah. It might be worth considering. That also feeds into questioning our attitudes about that because I think, like even for me, and I'd say my mom was a Home Ec teacher. Mech teacher, right? And it's not a wonder that I'm like this homemaker now and organizer and I cook it, all the things which in a way was cool, but I've looked at that and seen homemaking growing up was very specific and precious. Sometimes it felt like I lived in a museum, so it's like, okay, so those are attitudes that I'm now, I have brought into taking care of my home, but that doesn't mean that's how it has to be, and it also doesn't mean, because I think for a long time, I am very blessed that I have somebody that comes and cleans every other week.
Best thing ever. It took me years, even when it seemed like it was financially okay for us to do that. Cause it was like, oh no, no, I can do that. That's my job. Whether that's like, that's me as a mom or as a woman or just as Melissa. Like, I should be doing that. I really should be doing that. And it's like, but why?
I'm busy now doing other things. Like, it's okay to let that go.
Carly: Yeah, the, the letting go thing I think can be so helpful and I've been, this is on the, the folding clothes train, but I've talked to a lot of parents, especially if you have young children who are old enough to start helping, but aren't old enough to necessarily keep piles folded or keep their clothes folded once they go to pick up their outfits.
If you're spending all this time. Folding, folding, folding, putting it away, but you get frustrated that your toddlers, either they go to put something away and they're just whipping the clothes into the drawers, or they're going to find what they need and then mess up your piles. Why not just let go and don't worry about folding those things?
I highly recommend not folding. As much as possible, and there are a lot of things even around here, I stop folding rags, I stop folding washcloths I don't fold my underwear, I used to do the Marie Kondo fold for my socks, and I gave that up because I realized I don't care there's just a, once you, once you can let go And simplify some systems with regards to how much time it takes to make it happen.
It can just be a glorious chain reaction that you may never come back from in a good way.
Melissa: Yeah, I agree. I agree. And I can say for myself, that I am a weirdo who enjoys folding my laundry. I will put on a podcast and do all the condo folds. You should see my drawers. I fold my underwear. It's so beautiful.
It's nice. My son is nine. And I wanted him to have that as his, his putting the laundry away as his chore, that was probably his first chore when he was about five. And I still remember when I was like, okay, honey, like it's, you're gonna do, you're gonna do your clothes. And he's just like, and walked to the bed and started to flatten out his pants like I do with my clothes.
I was like, oh my gosh, he's been watching. I was like, that's so sweet. But I said you don't have to do that. His clothes are all soft. If it was like a dress shirt for a wedding or something, I would be the one to hang that up, right? But it's like, he throws it all in the drawers. I couldn't care less.
That's his deal. Maybe one day when he's older, that'll be more important to him and he'll choose how he wants things to be wrinkled or not, but forget it. It's great. Like it, that's just my own thing that I enjoy doing. No one else has to do it.
Carly: I love that. And I love, I love giving kids the autonomy to put things away, but in a more kid-friendly version than sometimes I, I feel like we tend to put on them only because we think that it maybe needs to be this way because of the reasons that we've been talking about.
I think there are a lot of things that we can do to simplify it and say, it doesn't need to be as structured. As organized, maybe it can just be. Chaotic in the play area type of spaces or your dressers or whatever the case may be.
Melissa: Yeah, very much Again, for an organizer, I feel like sometimes my idea might be a little bit radical, but I think about that with toys too.
Sometimes when I'm at home the toys can be very meticulously stored with every different type of toy. And, as a mom myself, I get it. When you have a baby. They have like three balls and two rattles. It's very easy. They got the blocks. You just, but then as you get older, they're into all these different things.
And maybe there's another kid or another kid, all of the different stuff. And I, again, it's not, it's not something that everyone wants or loves to hear, but sometimes it's like permitting them to say, what if we got a big basket for this room? So at the end of the day, you can say, Hey, Everything goes in this basket, or maybe not everything.
I'm always like, the Legos probably just need to go with the Legos, but yeah, like just all of the other action figures or the trains, it's their toys. I don't know, I feel like giving them kind of ownership over it, are they okay with that? Because one day they might be like, actually, I like to have my trains in their box and now I'm going to put my time into putting it in its own box rather than, oh my gosh, this whole huge system, that's a lot for a little kid if you'd like to start teaching your child. You're gonna help clean up. It's a lot for a kid to take on. I'm sure you've seen this too. I'm surprised how many homes I'm in where it's like 20 to 30 different bins with all the different toys. Not just board games that have their own parts, obviously, but full-on Target tubs with all the different things and it's an intricate system.
Again, it's a lot.
Embracing Your Inner Weird Barbie
Carly: Yeah, and I, I know that there are some parents who really want to take out, one thing at a time, so maybe like, right now we're playing with dinosaurs, or right now we're playing with blocks, or whatever the case may be, and I can see that also being nice to be like, okay, one thing at a time to your point, I was not that kid, I wanted the Lincoln Logs, and the train, and the plastic, Fisher Price people, and I wanted them to all be in a world that was I basically was like weird Barbie having, yeah, I was the weird Barbie girl and I wanted everything to play together.
Melissa: Me too. That was the best. Weird Barbie girl. I like it.
Carly: But I think it is something that can be helpful with that too. If your things are in one storage area or just a couple, then it's easier to say, okay, all the toys that we have in this space need to fit in this. So as more gifts are coming in the door, then we can say, okay, we can keep whichever ones you want to keep, but they all need to fit into this at the end of the day.
And using that storage space to give you just spatial boundaries of around how much to keep versus and, and Ever, like a never-ending influx of toys and things that don't leave in return. I think that's where that kind of chaos can happen. But so whatever system you do at home, folks, if you can have some boundaries around that space, I swear you'll be saving yourself a lot of headaches later.
Melissa: I agree. And also, again, back to self-acceptance, being okay with the fact that things can change. Because I can also, and as a mom, you have a ton of control over a little kid. So having the one in one out rule can work really great for a three, four, or even five-year-old. And then you have an eight-year-old who's like, nope, it's all coming out.
I'm sure you can put it under lock and key, but those things will change over time. But theoretically, they also have fewer toys at that age. My son's mostly now into video games, so we don't have all of the different things around. So just knowing, And I fully understand this, a lot of parents get into this, I want you to come and set up the system that's just going to be this great system forever.
In some places in your life, you can do that with toys and with kids’ stuff. You gotta gotta roll with it a little bit. And like you're saying, crazy Barbie girl, kids are different. Some kids are very content to go sit in the corner with a book and do their one little puzzle, and other ones want to pull every single thing off the shelf.
Carly: Yeah, yeah, so maybe if your kid is to pull everything off the shelf, it's worth re-examining and having systems that are less intricate, so that, I like to say, like, what's gonna give you the most peace when you're saying, okay, dinner in five minutes? We gotta start cleaning up and you don't have the bandwidth to be a part of that cleanup time.
Melissa: Yeah, or you just don't want to be anymore. Yeah, also fair. It's pretty great
Unconventional Solutions
Carly: Melissa, I wanted to ask. I know we were talking about Some solutions that we've seen that are unconventional things. Can you think of any other Unconventional solutions that you've seen along the way that you would like to share today?
Melissa: Unconventional I think I'm always just coming in and asking why You know it as we were saying I think as organizers, right?
That's what we do. I feel like it can get specific, but this dresser is just not working here. Why do we have a dresser here? You have tons of storage in the closet. Maybe we get the dresser out and now that kid's room has room for that huge stand-up tent thing that they love. Or, why do we have this?
I think that sometimes that can come up with, older pieces of furniture, sometimes people have heirlooms, maybe they love it, but as sure as sometimes the drawers are so tiny and I'm working with another family and that's a real issue because it's all these teeny tiny drawers and it's, it's just not working of saying, okay why do we have this?
Oh, it was Grandma's. I can't get rid of it. It's like, that's fine. Can we move it somewhere else? Because this doesn't seem to be serving you and you can only fit one sweatshirt in a drawer. And, right, and I don't say that to mock anybody, but I understand when it's your home. You're so used to seeing it all the time, right?
It's like the beauty of having someone come in and point those things out. It's like, or maybe you love it and you want to go to bed looking at grandma's dresser and it doesn't matter and it's fine. And of course, then that's the right solution for you. But I'm surprised how often it's like, wow, yeah, that makes sense.
Cool. Yeah. You don't have to keep it here. Fortunately in homes, there's like a ton of stuff that you don't have to keep.
Carly: Yeah, a lot of systems really do happen out of habit and we don't question it. It's just what happened years ago and then we've just kept up with the same thing without asking why.
I love that. Yeah. Yeah. So what are some ways that you feel like we can give ourselves some grace and invite a little more ease when we're decluttering and organizing?
Embracing Grace in the Decluttering and Organizing Process
Melissa: Comparison is the thief of joy. Just stop comparing, because you're you. You're you, and it's your unique home and life. And for some people, keeping things tidy and orderly or very stylish or designy, those are things that come naturally.
But if it doesn't, it's okay. I heard this recently, you don't have to be tidy to be organized. Where I think tidiness is... Everything is in its place, right? Or, or, coming in and being like, oh, wow, this is all like so put together, but organizational systems can help you in your everyday life, which may be a system that doesn't really work for other people or somebody who is extremely tidy would be like, what kind of a system is this?
Like, again, back to the clothes all over your chair. How is that a system? But that's organized because that's where your clothes are. Yeah. Yeah. That is unconventional, but being, accepting of the fact that either this is just too overwhelming, either at this point in your life, like dealing with something like a depressive episode or a new baby or things going on or a lot of chaos just going on in your life at that time.
Maybe that is just what needs to be done. And that's okay. We don't need to be looking for solutions. In Instagram or in magazines or even at the Container Store to be like, oh, if I just get this, that's gonna solve it. 'cause it's just, it's really hard and I just, I hate for organizing to be a thing where people are like, oh God, I can't, I just can't even mm-hmm.
where it's like, yeah, I get that. But for organizing, you might just be getting all the Amazon boxes outta your house. Yeah. I found that to be life-changing for a few of my jobs, right? Where it's just everywhere and those plastic things that come in and some, some random things that are in them where it's like just breaking them down and putting the things away and people are like, Oh my gosh, this is amazing.
No, that could be just one, small step, but that could be a huge step.
Carly: Yeah. And make a huge difference and maybe even be the catalyst for a little snowball effect. Could be.
Melissa: Yep.
Carly: I love it.
Carly: Melissa any final thoughts that you would like to leave our folks with before I let you go for the day?
You Are Not Lazy
Melissa: Yeah. I would say, and again, love to hear your take on this, but only because I was asked this question in this other forum where someone was asking, what's the biggest lazy thing you see as an organizer or laziness that you see as an organizer? And I was like, I don't see laziness. I don't think laziness exists. What I see is overwhelm, lack of time, and maybe just not having the skills to figure things out. So I just, I, I always like to say that when people are beating themselves up about, oh, this must be the worst house you've ever seen. How often do you hear that? Right. All the time. No, no, no. And people saying like, this probably looks like I'm so lazy, it's like, it absolutely doesn't. This goes to anybody who needs to hear that, just know, you're not lazy. You're not. I think just having any awareness that maybe things aren't in a way that's best serving you is showing that you aren't.
Yeah. You just need some help or need some tools.
Carly: I absolutely don't. I don't see laziness either. I see focus on other priorities, your children, your job, your extracurriculars, the, you serving your community, people doing all these other amazing things. I see trauma responses, people going through things and not being able to make decluttering and organizing a priority due to these other massive things going on in their lives. And, and really I just. I see folks doing their best and having a lot on their plate and, I couldn't agree with you more. It's not, it's not laziness. You just may not have the skill set or the extra time. And a lot of times when people do have extra time, they need to fit in a little relaxation and self-care and there's nothing wrong with that too, guys.
Melissa: Yeah, absolutely. Oh my gosh, one more time for the people in the back. I think, and, and again, back to sort of those attitudes that we carry on of, oh, I don't deserve a break or a rest or a manicure until I get the laundry folded, until I, and, and I relate to that thinking, but if you are worn out and burnt out, Go and watch The Bachelor, go and do the things or spend time with your friends if that's energizing, go for a walk or those things are so much more important.
This is something that can, I think as you're able to, recharge and feel better this could potentially become easier or not. Or maybe it's just a matter of then having more energy to find the resources to sort this out.
Carly: Yeah, but that's all, anything you're doing for self-care counts as self-care, no matter if it's taking a nap or decluttering.
Mental health is so important and I think to your point, we can put ourselves down for not focusing on our mental health in a certain way when sometimes what we need is just, just to rest, just to rest our beautiful little brains.
Melissa: Yes, I couldn't agree more. I don't think, personally, I just don't think there's anything more important.
Yeah. Really. Sleep and rest, are the major points of self-care. And I love that we're talking about self-care so much more openly. I think self-care used to be like the day at the spa. It was like the beauty magazine type of self-care. And to now see there are so many ways to take care of yourself. And to give them all a try, especially rest on top, but, and even like I said, folding my laundry, that's very restful for me.
And to other people that would be a living hell, right? So experimenting with what things are, is restful and recharging to your spirit. It's so important.
Carly: I love that. It can look different for everyone and that's okay.
Melissa: Right. That's right. No judgment. Anyone who has something to say about how you interpret self-care doesn't need to hear it.
Carly: You just send them our way, guys. Yes. We got you.
Connect with Melissa
Melissa, where can folks find you? Follow along, and if they are in the Bay Area, I know you're in the North Bay, in SF, and so if they're in that region, to give you a call if they're looking for in-home help as well, where can folks find you?
Melissa: Yeah, you can find me on my website at mgorganizing.com and I am on Instagram. I'm not the biggest social media person, but you will find me there at Melissa Gugni Organizing. And yeah.
Carly: I love it. Thank you so much again for being here today. I really appreciated this conversation.
Melissa: Yeah. Thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure talking to you.
We would love to make sure that your questions are answered for a question of the week or a future episode. So we love to hear from you. DM (on Instagram) or you can always email me, carly@tidyrevival.com. We love hearing from you. We love hearing your thoughts about the pod, and thank you so much for hanging out.
If you wanna learn more about how I can help you, feel free to head over to tidyrevival.com to learn how I work with people one-on-one or in our private community. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to subscribe so you'll always have access to the latest episode.
We would also love to hear your takeaways. Feel free to tag us on Instagram, Facebook, or TikTok. The Tidy Revival podcast is written and hosted by me, Carly Adams, and edited by Brittany McLean. Title Song Maverick is by Dresden The Flamingo.
and until next time, remember that…
Links mentioned in this episode
Connect with Melissa on Instagram
Inspired Organizer - Where the world’s best professional organizers come to learn.
Unleash the power of decluttering and discover a simplified life with Retold Recycling - click here and use code: TIDYREVIVAL10 to embark on your clutter-free journey!
Are we friends on social media yet? Whether your jam is Instagram, TikTok, Pinterest or Facebook - follow us @tidyrevival
Embrace the clutter-busting revolution at The Club, where we support and cheer each other on in an inclusive space - low monthly price with no commitment!
