Ep 57 - Why We Keep the Clutter: Featuring Tracy McCubbin

 

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I have found a kindred spirit in Tracy McCubbin, an organizer for over 17 years, a decluttering specialist at dClutterfly, and best-selling author. Join our conversation as we dive into the WHY behind the clutter we keep, the generational experiences that lead to our habits, and how shopping plays a key role in our clutter.

You can listen right here, on Apple, Amazon, Spotify or you can read the transcription below. Enjoy!

 
 
 
 

Carly: Hello, friend. Welcome to another episode of the Tidy Revival podcast. I'm super stoked that you are here. And today, I had a conversation with Tracy McCubbin. I'm really excited about this one. First, let me tell you her bio, and then we're going to dive in. Tracy McCubbin is a decluttering expert and author of Making Space Clutter Free and her latest book, Make Space for Happiness. Tracy looks at the root of our clutter to find the real cause and ways to get real solutions. As the CEO of Declutterfly, she has helped thousands of clients clear the clutter in their lives to create space for positive life changes.

Thank you so much, Tracy, for being here.

Tracy: Thank you so much for having me.

Carly: I'm really excited to have you here because I know we mentioned before we hit record that I feel strongly that you are a perfect fit for folks who listen to this podcast and folks who are overwhelmed with too much stuff, so thank you again, for being here. I appreciate you.

Tracy: That is, yes, that is my wheelhouse. Yes. People who have too much stuff, and why do I have so much stuff? Yeah. I think we're gonna have a great conversation. I think your listeners are gonna get a lot out of it.

Carly: I love it. Okay, we'll start at the beginning.

Please share with us how you got started and what you're doing these days.

Getting Started: Tracy McCubbin's Journey into Decluttering

Tracy: Oh, great. So I have owned a professional decluttering and organizing company for 17 years. I'm an OG in space. My company is called Declutterfly. We are based in Los Angeles, but we go all over the country. We have a big New York clientele.

At this point, I have 14 employees, so 14 organizers working for me and we love what we do. So very early on when I started, I had originally been a personal assistant and I'd worked for two different people for about 10 years and I loved it. I loved solving problems. I loved it was different every day and I started to get some jobs outside of my personal assisting job. Friends of my bosses would call me and, you know, I need to get my garage cleaned up and I got to get my Christmas ornaments organized and my husband's business failed and we have all this paperwork. I had worked as an executive assistant, so I had a lot and I have a minor in accounting, so I had a lot of paperwork experience back, you know, 18 years ago, 20 years ago when paper was even more prevalent than it is now.

So I started doing these little jobs and I loved them and they were interesting and at first, I wasn't charging and then I was like, Oh, I should get paid. And I got to a friend of mine saying to me, you know, that's a business. I think that's a business. Like they weren't even really professional organizers.

18 years ago or 17 years ago. 100%. Yeah. No. And I was like, no. And he was like, no, really? And so I made a website and I started putting the word out and I joked that my little flip phone started buzzing and that was 17 years ago. So I, yeah, I've been doing this for a long time and I love it. And the company has grown and we're expanding, which is super exciting.

And I think the thing that set me apart really early on, as I am the child of a hoarder, I have, my father is diagnosed, this is out in the world, he knows it has been diagnosed with extreme hoarding disorder, so I have spent my whole life around someone who struggles immensely with their relationship with their step, so very early on, it became apparent to me, But this is not about pretty things in pretty bins with pretty labels.

Yeah. This is much, much deeper. And I also spent a lot of time with my grandparents. My grandmother was an immigrant. We come from a farming community. They lived through the Depression and the world wars. And so they need to save things. was historical. So I really early on was able to tap in, tap into the emotions of why we can't let go of the things we don't want, need, or use, and why we keep buying stuff.

So that's how I ended up where I am.

Carly: I love that so much. Thank you so much.

A couple of follow-ups. The first thing I have to share with you is that my organizational journey, because I was not a naturally organized person, came about as I was an admin. And as I was getting more organized at home, I found that I was moving up in the world and I was an executive assistant for four years and an admin before that for many more years. And so I come from the same background and I know how much that can lend itself to you know, you're figuring out solutions on the fly all the time and taking a lot of complex things and figuring out the pieces of the puzzle and how to keep it organized for other people and how that can easily transition into what we do now.

I love that so much. I also have to ask, where did your grandmother immigrate from?

Tracy: Scotland. So she immigrated from Scotland in, like 1911, and they landed at Ellis Island and took the train across. The country, and ended up in, you will know this, is beautiful Readley, California, which is just south of Fresno.

Carly: Yeah! Lovely! I was sharing with Tracy, I also lived in Fresno for about five years when I was a young child. My second-grade teacher was also a grape farmer, so he always had an end-of-year field trip at his farm, which was so cool. Yes, I know the area, and I love it so much.

Tracy: I think it's important for people, Carly, to understand that their geography, that their family history plays into their relationship. With stuff. So I work with a lot of people who are first-gen, you know, parents were immigrants and they have a completely different relationship to stuff because, you know, their parents saved everything.

I work with a lot of people who were, who are in Los Angeles, who are Japanese American, and whose parents or grandparents were in the internment camps. That has a huge effect. I work with a lot of people. whose great-grandparents were Holocaust survivors or not survivors, all of that comes into play. You know, did you grow up in a place?

I grew up in Central California. We got nothing but space out there. Like everybody could save everything. So those kinds of, as you're starting your decluttering journey, Look at those kinds of things because they play into the story that you've written about your stuff.

Carly: I relate to this so much as the granddaughter of a Mexican-American woman who went through the depression in Los Angeles, close to downtown a lot, I hear a lot of hard stories and I know how that played into her habits as an adult.

Her legacy and it's very interesting. I've talked with other folks on the podcast, a therapist, and a friend of mine, and we talked about the generational differences and how we directly see, especially when I'm working with millennials, the gripes that they have about their parents who fall under like the boomer area, era but then how what they're going through is directly affected by their parents who lived through the Great Depression and fair enough, you know, it's general generational trauma that's now working its way down into our decision making day to day now and I completely agree with you.

Those are things that we have to take into consideration and know that this doesn't come naturally to most people, myself included. Sounds like you as well.

Tracy: No, it came, it came naturally to me, but it was a reaction to growing up in chaos. Yes. You know, I learned it as a coping mechanism.

I think that when people are starting their decluttering journey, and especially if there is that conflict between parents and grandparents, you have to understand where people came from. You have to understand what informs their views.

Ali Wong has a fantastic bit in an old comedy piece she did. Vietnamese and like, immigrated over and her mom like, saves every yogurt container ever and I'm not going to do the bit justice but Ally says like, her mom's like, you never know when you're going to have to dig out of communist Vietnam.

And she's like, yeah, she's not wrong. You know, so I think that when you're in conflict with other family members, you have to Look at the history of it. You just can't, you just can't erase it. And for me, that's when I think the rabbit hole of social media and Pinterest and all that stuff is doing us a disservice.

Because it's like, it should just be pretty and it's easy and you just buy bins and you make labels. It's like, oh, it's not that easy.

Carly: And to your point, I've found that it's just not that for every person who's, you know, organizing their fridge with 80 clear containers and all their food fits perfectly, there are another 80 people who are feeling completely, you know, sad and downtrodden like everyone else has it together and for some reason, they're the one that doesn't.

But it's just simply not true.

Tracy: It's not true. The shame spiral around this is so intense and you know, my, my goal, my whole goal, my life's mission is to get your house to work for you, to work for you. Your home is a tool. Your home should be restful shareable and joyful, but what works for you?

This idea to compare yourself and you brought it up, so I'm going to go there. I think organizing bins in the fridge is just a colossal waste of money, of time, and don't even get me started on decanting your laundry room. I do not understand it. First of all, it's not safe. You see all those, like, if you have little kids, I don't, it makes me want to gnash my teeth to powder, like, and I'll do it.

I do it for clients all the time and make it look beautiful. The thing that people don't take into account when they see it. How much work it is to upkeep it and what is to do with your time?

Carly: Yes, I am. You can see behind me, I have a colossal amount of product here. Tomorrow I'm going to be doing this beautiful, beautiful pantry, but it's definitely the client was interested in having a more Kardashian-esque space, and Quite frequently I'm talking people down from that, like, let's think about a space that's just

Tracy: By the way, let's just, Carly, Carly, let's say this to people so people don't beat themselves up.

The Kardashians have a full-time person. Yes! I know this for a fact, a full-time person who stacks those Oreos. Look! Like, I, so this idea that we should all be doing this, it's ridiculous.

Carly: The Oreo stacking is the thing that I always mention. I'm like, a full-time person is stacking the Oreos.

Like, the Kardashians are not doing this. And me knowing my client, I'm like, I want to steer you away from this because I don't feel like you have the time or the desire to keep it up. So let's figure out something in the middle where it's going to be aesthetically pleasing, it feels like you've leveled up, but it's easier to maintain so that you...

Tracy: 1000%. And look, there are times when you need to bin. There are times when you need to bin. There are times when you need to label. It makes sense. But this idea that people are doing it to compare themselves to something they see on social media, it's just beating people up. And I want everyone to move back from that.

If that doesn't work for you, it's okay. Being organized and having systems in place. Has nothing to do with, has a little to do with, but it's not the end goal of a bin everywhere and a label matching. That's not the goal.

Carly: Yeah. The goal of a system is so that you can find what you need easily and put it away easily.

Yep. That's it. Yep. That's it. And wherever on the spectrum you achieve that, no matter what it looks like, if it works for you, it works for you.

Tracy: Okay. Exactly. And that's the key. That, like, needs some highlighting. A system is only as good as the one you'll use. Yes. You know, I give this example all the time.

I don't have kids. So yeah, I haven't raised kids. When I first started organizing, I would work with moms and I'd go in and they'd be like, okay, so I have my hairbrush and my sunscreen in the kitchen. I'd be like, what? That's what I don't understand. And then being around, I was like, then I have nieces and nephews now.

And I was like, oh because when they're sitting, eating breakfast is the only, a lot of them, the only time you can comb their hair. Oh yeah. Oh, that makes sense. Let's give you a little basket, let's get a little something, let's put that stuff in there so you can grab it, like, that system makes sense.

What do I do in my house... No, but it doesn't matter. So I think people need to understand when they want, people call me all the time, I want to put systems in my house and I'm like, what do you mean by that? And they have to be something that will work and that you will use.

Carly: Yep. Always, I love talking to people and starting with like, okay, let's retrace your steps.

Like, if you're talking about adding a mudroom thing near the front door, do you come in through the front door? Because if you come in through the garage, there's no point in putting it over here. You know, like, just retracing your steps and figuring out solutions based on the path of least resistance for you specifically.

Versus and I'm doing air quotes here, the best way to organize, or the best system to use. I'm like, that doesn't exist, and anyone who tells you that it does is, I don't know, a liar.

Tracy: Yeah, and you know, and I go back to this, and this has been my, you know, my driving force and my mantra for 17 years. Your home is a tool.

Your home is a tool. It's a tool to rest you, to feed you, to make you comfortable. Should it be beautiful to you? Absolutely. You should feel surrounded by things you love and things that are beautiful to you, but it needs to work. It needs to work because it makes your life easier. That's it.

Carly: That's it. Oh, is it too early to tell you that I love you?

Tracy: No, no, no.

Exploring The Seven Clutter Magnets

Carly: Okay, so I'm gonna dig in. I know you have a lot of wisdom to share with us about the seven clutter magnets. And this is something that you talk about a lot, so I'd love for you to tell us all about them.

Tracy: Sure, I'm gonna go a little historical, which will give people context. So my first book that I wrote was called Making Space Clutter Free, and I identified what I called the 7 Clutter Blocks.

So they are the seven stories that we all tell ourselves about why we can't let go of the things we don't want, need, or use. And is everything from my stuff keeping me stuck in the past, like old memories? So the stuff I keep paying for I can't get rid of it because I spent good money on it. So the stuff I'm avoiding, and those resonated.

Everybody was like, oh my gosh, I've never seen it that way. And these stories are universal, you know, you might have a little switch on them or a little zhuzh, but they really speak to people. You know, the stuff I stuck with other people's stuff, so gifts people give you. You know, pe things from people who've passed on, all of that.

that was going along great and then I started to notice... I started to get really interested in why I have repeat clients, right? Why are they calling me? How's the stuff getting back in? How are they getting back? And then the pandemic hit and I saw everybody just shopping like drunken sailors, like just out of control, like out of control.

Yeah. And I realized. That you cannot talk about decluttering if you don't talk about people's acquisition cycles. If you don't look at why people buy and why they're buying, not what, but why. So I did a really, really deep dive into that science of happiness. Because there's a lot of correlation that when we buy when we purchase something, we get a little hit of dopamine.

And we, it raises our pepsis for about 17 seconds. And then it goes away because that's what dopamine does, but we're like, I like that feeling. I want to get it again. I need to buy more. So I broke down the seven clutter magnets. The way I describe those, as if, it's as if you, I'm doing a little, I keep forgetting that we're on video, audio, yeah, you know, it's as if we have a little, we think we have a little piece of our heart or our soul missing and there's this empty piece inside of us and we're going to magnetize all this stuff to fill it in, fill in the hole.

So if our self-confidence is low. And that's going to be the day that we're like, buy all those anti-aging creams or the, you know, shapewear. If our self-respect is low, are we going to buy things with labels on them? If we aren't feeling connected to our community, are we going to go out and shop because talking to a salesperson is going to make us feel like we're having a human interaction?

So I broke down these seven clutter magnets in my book. Make space for happiness, to look at why we shop, why we shop, why it's not working, and what other things we can do to get that same fulfillment.

Carly: I love that. That's amazing. And... So true. It resonates with everybody. It's something that I'm talking about with folks all the time as far as the feelings that they have and the guilt and the different kinds of guilt and the different reasons why things come in.

Exactly.

Tracy: And you think about it, you know, I joke with my clients. They're like, you go into their house and like, I don't know how all this stuff got here. And you're like, You brought it in. You, or someone you knew, ordered it, brought it in, bought it, you know, so there's this level of accountability and consciousness, and look, full disclosure, I am not a minimalist.

I do not live a minimalist life. I don't have a ton of stuff, but I have nice things, you know, I have things, and I just bought a new pair of jeans because they were cute and stylish, and you know, I'm not saying Don't spend. I'm not saying you're not gonna buy anything again, but I am saying that we have to be accountable.

About what we're spending. We have to be accountable for what we're buying, right? Is it going to end up in a landfill? Are you, I mean, people are starting to decorate for Halloween around here and I'm like, that stuff's just going to go in the trash. Like, can you do it? Like my neighbor, bless him. At least he does lights that he uses every year.

I'm like, great. We see that there are those lights again. Fantastic. You know, so accountability about stuff going back in the landfill, accountability, and then consciousness. About where's your head or your heart when you're buying? Are you trying to fix something that's not fixable with stuff?

Carly: When I was going through my decluttering journey and paired that with a financial journey, I found that one of the places where I was spending I was spending my I was spending the most money at three places and they were all within walking distance of my office because I was in downtown SF at the time.

Starbucks, we know what happened there, Taco Bell, is self-explanatory, and Walgreens. And Walgreens was the place where I was buying... Countless lip glosses. Like, it'd be like, here's my 25th lip gloss. Here is my 35th nail polish. But it was, and it was a lot of lip glosses and nail polishes, truth be told. But I wasn't even doing my nails at the time, you know what I mean?

And it was just like a little, like, to your point, dopamine hit. And it wasn't until I started. examining how I was spending my money and what I had that was too much and that I had no systems and started decluttering the second half of that is being conscious about what your habits are moving forward.

And I think that as an organizer, it's interesting because when I first got started, it wasn't, that wasn't something. I was conscious about making sure to discuss with people during our sessions, but I realized that if I didn't, it wasn't something that necessarily clicked into place about how to maintain your stuff and the habits that need to change moving forward to keep up with what you had just accomplished.

Tracy: Yeah, honestly, you know, I've been doing this for a long time, I have two best-selling books, and there are very few organizers that are talking about the acquisition cycle. They're, you know, they're talking about buying more products, you know, the big, there are a couple of big ones that just push products and I don't think that you can do this job Ethically and not discuss what people are buying.

Yeah. I just don't, I think that they go hand in hand and so much of our buying habits are emotional. You know, I was telling a story to somebody the other day. I went on a shopping trip to like, you know, some outlet malls with a family member who can push my buttons. This family member can push my buttons and can be very triggering and shopping was a thing that we've done in the past and just brought up a lot.

It wasn't really, I didn't check in with myself and I'm in there and my buttons are getting pushed and I find myself shopping by myself buying a bunch of things. I didn't set a budget for myself. I didn't say like, okay, you got 100 bucks to spend. I got in my car, Carly, and I had a hangover. I had a shopping regretful hangover.

I was like, why did I buy that? Two of those things are final sales. I don't even know if I like it. You know, when I didn't take care of myself. To say, you're going into an emotionally challenging situation, take a breath, and know that shopping's not going to change it. Buying something is going to make you feel better for one second.

And then, and recently, two of those things I bought, I just put in the donation bag, and I was like, Wow. You've had those for three months. You didn't like them when you bought them. And you know, remembering like, not to beat yourself up, but to go, you didn't take care of yourself. You didn't steal yourself and take a moment and say, this is going to be hard and shopping's not going to fix it.

So I think it's, you know, for people listening, it's that awareness. And like, what was I feeling when I did that? Okay. This is, we're going to go deep cuts right now.

Carly: Love.

Tracy: This is a tough one, but you can run a report on Amazon, an Excel report of all your spending.

Carly: Oh no.

Tracy: Oh yes. And it's an exercise I do with a lot of people where I'm like, run it for a month, run it for three months.

And then just look at the spreadsheet and indicate like, was it a real need? Did you really need that thing? Or was it just a want? And then looking at your, all the wants and going, where was your head that day? Like, did you have a terrible day at work? Like, thinking that actually, the report shows you even what time you bought it.

I remember that. So are you buying things late at night? Are you buying things when you're exhausted? You know, starting to be aware of. Where your head is at when you're shopping is going to be so enlightening and illuminating.

Carly: I feel like they need to have that as an option for purchases made on TikTok and Instagram as well.

Tracy: You can do it with Venmo and PayPal, you can run all the reports too. Yeah,

Carly: yeah, that's actually a really good point because those are places that a lot of my folks I'm talking to recently are shopping and it's kind of like emotional just spur of the moment shopping and then we're decluttering pounds and pounds of things later.

Tracy: Pounds! And also, opening up to a whole other conversation that ties into this is, we're being marketed to 24 hours a day. Ugh! 24 hours a day. And if you think, you know, that whole idea of a parasocial bestie and that this person is your friend on Instagram.

It's like, they're still trying to sell you things. It's their job, you know? And I, you know, it, people fall into that and, you know, I'm old, so when I was a kid, it used to, we had three TV channels, right, ABC, NBC, and CBS, and you knew what time the commercials were and you got up and, you know, there are more commercials than Saturday cartoons.

It's commercials all the time now, all the time. You're being bombarded and they're really... I mean, I'm 58, so the amount of like, anti-aging, like, you know, you're not enough, you're getting old, this cream will fix you, this thing will fix you, like, it's just, it's gobsmacking how much we're being marketed to, and so I think that people need to understand that They gotta let, not let themselves off the hook, but understand that it's not completely their fault.

Like, they're so sophisticated. The redirect marketing and the, like, all of it. So that part of what's happening for people is that they're just getting bombarded and you just break down. And if you're tired, you're like that's the sixth time I've seen that thing on TikTok. Let me just buy it. It looks like it's fixing everybody else's problems.

Carly: Yeah, and to your point too, marketers are really good at their job, and their analytics are more sophisticated than they've ever been, so they're really able to anticipate what we want next in a way that's never been possible before. Yeah. If you're feeling susceptible, just know that the technology is so sophisticated that it's...Really difficult for you to not feel that way, and also...

Tracy: And by the way, if you're saying to yourself, are they listening? Yes, they're listening. Are they following me? Yes, they're following you. Yes! You're every move. They redirect. You look at one thing, and they will send it to the people who sell that, and they will read your ad.

All that stuff that you think is true.

Carly: And, you know, you mentioned those items that you bought the other week because you were feeling particularly vulnerable that day, and I've been there too. For anyone listening at home who's feeling any sort of way about their spending habits, know that Tracy and I are up against this as well, and we do this for a living.

And Tracy's been doing it a hell of a lot longer than I have. And I've been doing it for years. You know, we're, we understand.

Tracy: We understand. That's the thing. And my whole point is not to, again, not to send people down that shame spiral, but to give them the tools to understand and to say, you know, I'm having a bad day.

You know, this woman, I was speaking at a book event one time and this woman and it's such a powerful visual, this woman stood up and she said, I have a shopping problem. I have a shopping... She didn't use the word addiction, but. She might as well. And she said I have a very, very stressful job. I have a special needs child.

I'm overwhelmed all the time. I'm always worried about money. She's like, almost every day after work, I go to Marshall's. And I buy myself something. And she said, you know, and just when I'm in that store and I just, and the way she said it, she was like, the way that I just, the way that the hangers click when I put through the clothes, I just start to feel better and then I buy something, but then I get home and I don't feel better anymore and I feel guilty.

And it's like because that was a little dopamine you've associated. You know, the high you get from shopping makes you feel better, but it doesn't last. And then you get home and then you're left with, you know, the remnants of your spending. And especially if you're in a place where you are, you know, working on your budget or trying to change your, get yourself out of debt.

Look, we've all been there. I got myself out of terrible debt in my twenties. Terrible. Worked so hard, you know, and so I'm understanding. I get it. I get it.

Carly: Yeah, there have been many email lists that I've had to unsubscribe from just because I'm like, I don't actually want to know about your sales.

This is triggering for me and I will buy it. Just shh.

Tracy: Ooh, ooh, Carly, let me say this because we're getting into Prime Days, Cyber Monday, Black Friday. This is what I'm telling everybody to do ahead of those. If there is something that you truly need you may need it. Like, for example, our Vitamix is about to die.

We have fixed it. We have done everything we can. We use it all the time. It's about to die. So if there's something that you truly need, what I want you to do is I want you to make a little note on your phone or a piece of paper about what it costs ahead of the sales. And then When the sales happen, I want you to make sure it's actually on sale because oftentimes what they do is they jack the price right before the sales and then they drop it down and it's not really on sale.

So I want you to do your due diligence and be like, I do need a new Vitamix. They're 3. 99. Oh, it's on sale for $1,79. That actually is a sale for something that I need. So you know that we're getting into the time of year where it's like, oh, it's on sale. I need to buy it. No, if you don't need it, you don't need to buy it.

Carly: Yes, and remember that if something's 50 percent off, but you don't need it or even want it before you see the sale, you're just spending 50 percent and may regret a letter.

Tracy: And my husband has this famous saying, and I use it all the time if everything like you'll go to the grocery store and you'll see three for the price of, you know, all the signs of it.

And he's like, if everything's on sale, nothing's on sale.

Carly: Yes. I love it.

The Attachment to Stuff: Understanding Why It's Hard to Let Go

Carly: Okay. So in your experience. When we're talking about folks that are attached to their stuff, what are some of the main reasons why you feel, why you have seen that people find it hard to let go? Just so folks at home can understand that they're not alone in those situations.

Tracy: Sure, so there's everything from being stuck in the past, that the sentimentality, you know, the thing that the way things used to be, your kids were little, the clothes you used to fit into that you're holding onto something that, and I always say about that stuff, that you're spending all your time looking backward instead of looking, forwards.

Ooh, that's good. Let's talk about clothes that don't fit you anymore. There's a thing called gravity. You cannot get around it. I am this, I'm basically the same weight I've been since my twenties, give or take five pounds. I don't know what happened. I do. It's gravity. My rib cage has changed. It's just changed.

It's just different. I think it's slumping over the phone. I think it's a bunch of things. So there are things that I will not be able to get back into because I can't, I'm not going to break a rib and that is nothing other than life. You know, so it's sentimentality about things that. You have, and looking backward, another big one is things that you've spent money on, right?

I've paid good money for this, I can't just give it away. If you paid good money for something and you don't use it, it doesn't matter what you paid for it. If you don't use it, it does not matter. And you need to put your big girl pants on and you need to say, I made a mistake, let me let it go. Can I maybe sell it and recoup a little bit of money?

Maybe? Is it better to just let it go? Get a tax donation? So there's that. There is stuff that people have given us. You know, I caught being stuck with other people's stuff, gifts that people have given us that we don't like, but we feel guilty letting go of. I think a big one, a big, this is one of the biggest, is stuck with stuff that, of people that have passed on.

That is one of the biggest causes of clutter because, at the end of the day, we actually don't want the stuff. We want to maintain the connection of the person that we've lost. So we think that if we keep the stuff, we'll maintain that connection. I was very close to my grandmother, very, very, very, very close.

I miss her. She's been gone, I don't know, 20 years now. I think about her every day. I have like three things of hers. I wear her wedding ring every day. I have an ugly purse but it just reminds me of it, it just sits in my closet and I look at it and I don't even I can't remember what the third thing is.

Often times when we lose someone, when we lose someone very dear to us, when we lose someone suddenly we want to keep all the stuff, we want to keep all the connection. But if the stuff that you're keeping from someone becomes a burden, like if you're paying for outside storage units if it's Filling up your garage.

If it's furniture that you don't like or don't use, I believe you're doing their memory a disservice. . 'cause you're finding yourself getting resentful. I know they're not. If you had a chance to see them again, they wouldn't be like, I'm so glad you kept that tall boy. Like that piece of furniture.

Like just, you know. So, I think that that one, I see people struggling with that. And just because something was important to somebody else doesn't mean it has to be important to you. Yep.

Carly: Yep. I think that's great advice and those items do tend to be the hardest for folks to work through, and you have to be very, in a very specific frame of mind to be ready to approach that stuff.

Tracy: If you're starting your decluttering journey, don't start with that stuff.

Carly: Don't you start there. Start with if it feels easiest, I recommend a bathroom or pantry, things that are more cut and dry with expiration dates unless. If you have trauma around food, then don't start in the pantry because that is also

Tracy: I tell people to start with cardboard boxes.

You remember all the cardboard boxes.

Carly: But what if it's a good box, Tracy?

Tracy: It's a good box. It's a good box. I know. Guess what's going to come tomorrow from Amazon? Another good box. Carly, another great reason that people keep stuff is what I like to call my fantasy stuff for my fantasy life. The things that you keep because you think you're going to become a crafter, or you think you should be a runner, or you think you should be this thing that you're not.

Carly: You think you have a 10-point face regimen at night? When you're a face wipe girl like myself?

Tracy: Yeah, exactly. I'm like, oh, I'm not, I am not 16 products at night. I'm not even 16 products during the day. I'm like three and I'm done. You know, that's a great one. Like, what's life? You need stuff in your life for the life you're living.

It's not the life you think you should be or you want to be or, you know, I just meet so many people who especially like crafting. We're like, I thought I wanted to be a knitter and I bought all the stuff and I hate it, but I feel guilty and I should be. No, you shouldn't. No rule says you should knit.

Yeah, if you love it, knock your socks off, and knit me a sweater, I'd love it. But if you don't, it's okay.

Carly: In our private community, we're having a lot of conversations lately about ADHD crafting tendencies, about getting really into a craft and then getting all of the accouterment for said craft getting over the craft quickly, and then feeling really guilty because you spent all this money on these new crafting supplies.

If anyone here is listening to this and this is resonating and you live in the Sacramento region, I want to encourage you to donate to The Broad Room, which I will link in the show notes because they have a free art supply closet and I have found it to be an amazing resource for my clients so that they can guilt free let go of those things and know that.

They're gonna go somewhere to a good home.

Tracy: And if you live in the Los Angeles area, there's a place in Pasadena called Remainders, and they are an amazing non-profit that does crafting classes and all, senior, all sorts of things, and they will take all your crafting supplies. And bonus, if you're thinking of taking on a craft, you can buy used crafting supplies Yes!

And also, the other thing is a lot of libraries. In the California library system, and I think in other places in the country, some of them have crafting lending libraries. So can you, if you're this person that's like, gets, you know, takes it, wants to try a new craft and wants to buy everything, can you borrow it from a library?

Can you borrow it from a friend? Can you look for it in your buy nothing group? Can you say, all right, I'm going to start this new craft, I'm going to give myself, myself a... 50 budget, that's what I get to buy to try it and then I'm going to try it for six weeks and I see it, see if I like it because the people, my fantasy stuff for my fantasy life, they go all out, they spend all this money on all this stuff without even figuring out if they like it.

Carly: That was me over the pandemic with a ukulele. I was like, I think I'm gonna be

Tracy: Sourdough. Sourdough at our house. It was like, don't even, like, the Le Creuset and the thing and the jars, and yeah, it's sourdough at our house.

Carly: My mom was like, do you want to borrow a ukulele? I was like, sure do. And it turns out I like the idea of being a ukulele player, but not so much.

Tracy: Wait, let's just, but let's land on that for one second. Let's land on that because this is so important for people to hear. It's okay if you don't like doing it. I don't, I do not like to garden. I love having a beautiful garden. I don't like it. I don't enjoy it. I don't like digging in it.

I don't. I am fortunate enough that I can hire someone. I have a lovely man who comes once a week. We talk about plants. We make plans. I love being involved in it. Don't like doing it. And guess what? That's okay.

Carly: That's okay.

Tracy: That's okay. If you started something and realized you didn't enjoy it, great.

Carly: Kind of circling, like digging into this a little bit more, that fantasy life persona that we have, there is so much guilt that we're holding onto because we're not living up to these expectations that no one else is setting for us.

And if these activities don't fit into our life or aren't actually something that we enjoy, I want to invite you to please give yourself a break, let it go, and know that you've learned a lesson from it, and that's the most important part. But let's just move on with our lives. Move on!

Tracy: And look, just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Carly: And let's focus on enjoying the life that we are currently living. Versus having hella guilt about these shoulds, which is a four-letter word if I ever heard one.

Tracy: I know, I feel the same way and I feel like so much of my work as an organizer, when I work with clients when I'm one, is just permitting them.

Just permitting them, like, let it go, let it go, it's okay, let it go.

Carly: Sounds like you don't like this thing, or even want it. If I told you I could take it away right now, how does that feel? That feels great. Then let's get rid of it. It's only making you pissed every time you see it.

Tracy: Exactly.

Exactly.

Two Things to Start Today- and They’re Free!

Carly: Okay, so I know that we dug into your books a little bit, and before I ask you, you know, where folks can find you and learn more and absolutely get your books, do you have any final thoughts that you would like to share with our folks? Things that you'd like to leave them with to ponder.

Tracy: Fantastic. These are my, are two things that you can implement starting today without spending any money that I think will make a significant change in your life. The first one is to stop saying I need to. Stop saying I need a new pair of leggings. Stop saying I need a new coffee mug. I need the new, you know, Stanley cooler.

You don't. You do this very rare occasion that you actually need something. You just want it, which is okay. But if you switch that languaging to start saying, I want a new pair of leggings, it takes the power away. All of a sudden you're like, oh, do I want a new pair of leggings? I have ten pairs already and they're...

In great shape, so, actually I don't really, and what's really going on, oh yeah, I'm feeling a little like I haven't been exercising and taking care of myself, that's what I really want. I wanna like, let me make a date to go on a walk with a friend, instead of thinking if I buy the right workout pants, it'll inspire me.

Changing your language from need to want is going to make significant behavioral changes, and it's such an easy swap because there's no judgment around it. There's no, you're just like, Oh, I want that. Oh, actually, I don't want that. That's the first one. And the second one, and you said this earlier, and it is the forward of my book and it is my mantra.

Don't put it down, put it away. If you can do that, first of all, it's going to illuminate. Do you have a home for things in your house? And second of all, you're going to know where to find it and it's not going to become clutter. So that's the number, like to me, I'm like, what's the best way to organize?

And I'm like, well, have less stuff and don't put it down. Put it away.

Carly: And if you are finding that you don't know where anything goes, cause everything is everywhere, that's okay too. We have tools to help you get started.

Tracy: Yeah, and that's a, and that's a great litmus test, right? Like, if you're out there wondering, going, I think I have too much stuff, I think I'm having clutter issues, I'm not.

Like, if you go to start to put things away and you realize they don't have a home, then you're starting on your journey. Now you're like, Oh great, this isn't working for me and I want my house to work. It's actually a really exciting place to be because you're going to get control of your house and you're going to make it work for you.

So I always think that realization is super exciting.

Carly: Yeah, this stuff is, I can't stress this enough, absolutely life-changing, because it changed my life a hundred percent.

Tracy: Yeah, and it's about creating the home that supports you and loves you and gives back to you, and that's our goal, that's our goal, I mean Carly and I are clearly aligned in that's our goal, I don't care what it looks like, no, I really don't, like, okay yeah, you know.

But is it working for you? Is it? That's what I care about. That's what I care about.

Carly: I always give an example in my sock drawer because I still have some shoe boxes, not beautiful new shoe boxes that are acrylic bins from the Container Store, but just from a pair of shoes. And that's what's holding my socks, my underwear, and keeping it divided.

And I haven't got to take

Tracy: Carly, you should be in my drawers because I have the exact same thing. And I moved into a house that has a different kind of setup. And I was having one of the women who works for me help me in my closet. And she was like, is it time to throw these shoe boxes away? And I'm like, no, they work.

They work great. Perfectly. They work great. Now, did I need to buy a couple of sweater bags? Because we're having a big moth problem in LA. I did. I have some lovely cashmere, I needed to buy some of those, all good, but my shoe boxes that hold my panties, Carly, I don't even know, 20 years I've probably had them.

Carly: Do I have beautiful acrylic shoe boxes that stack lovely and they're for my like, occasion shoes so I can see them at a glance and they stay dust-free? Sure. But do I need to have that sort of setup in my sock drawer currently? No. May I change my mind later? Yeah, but it's fine. Whatever, works for you, lean in, lean in.

Tracy: Yeah, but be honest that it's work, right? This idea, like people say I need to have it out to know where it is. That is not true. That is actually not true. You need it out to know where it is because you don't have a system of where it lives. That's why.

Carly: Yes. And if you can retrain, this is something I'm talking to somebody about right now, it comes to paperwork.

Like, I need everything out so I don't lose it because once it's in a file, it's gone. But if you had things categorized in files that were labeled and you're training yourself to look for the label versus one of a hundred pieces of paper out on your desk, it could work. You just have to get used to it.

And know that... I've been harping on this a lot lately, too, but know that you're going to have to reset your systems at some point. Things will come undone and know that's just part of human nature, and it's okay. It doesn't mean that you're bad at organizing. It just means you need a little reset.

Tracy: But also remember this, I say this all the time. Decluttering, organizing, and cleaning are three separate tasks.

Carly: Yep.

Tracy: They're not the same. And in the same way that you need to clean, you also need to declutter. You need to have a regular decluttering practice. Stuff comes in, you need to have regular organizing.

It's part of the care of your home. So this idea that you're gonna, there is... There's a very big organizer out there that sells this idea that once you get organized, it's going to stay that way forever. No, it's not. You have to do it again. You know, it's, and it's not a failure. It's called life and it's called living in your home.

And then you're like, Oh, once, you know, Oh, you know, for me, it's like, I try and spend Sundays. Sort of putting things back, right? Like, you know, in that same way, like, let me just, you know, and this is really good, I tell people this a lot, if it takes you more than 20 minutes to like, tidy a room up and get it back to the way you like it, it's gotten out of control.

Carly: The 20 minutes is something I talk about, I'm like, set a timer for 15-20 minutes and let's just tidy. It's not so long that it's hard to stay focused for that long, but like, you can make such a difference. I'm so glad that you said that. That's, yeah, it's gotten a little out of control.

Tracy: We've, I've done, I have these on my Instagram, I do these things you can declutter in five minutes.

I think we're up to like 50 of them now and they're fantastic and they're five minutes, you know, maybe 10. People are like, it took me seven minutes. I'm like, okay. All right. Do you feel good about that? Great. Yeah. I'm so sorry. Yeah. I'm sorry. I was wrong by two minutes. People DM me and they're like, I did all of the challenge and I did my whole house.

It's like, yeah, it's designed that way. You know, here, you know, so you have to look at how you, the time that you have, the attention span that you have, you know, like I'm crazy. I can do it for eight hours. I love it. I'll dive in. I will do it. I'm not normal. I'm not a regular person. So you need to say, Oh, I've got an hour, I got an hour in me, or I have 15 minutes.

I have this longtime client who, four hours, that's it. That's all she can do. 3 hours and 59 minutes. She takes my purse, she gives me a bottle of water, she puts it by the front door, and she goes and locks herself in her bedroom and doesn't say goodbye. And then I, you know, I text her and say, when, you know, and she knows herself and we're very successful.

So just, you've got to like, you've got to take all this stuff into account.

Carly: And knowing yourself in that way is so invaluable because you'll keep your peace. Along the way.

Tracy: You'll keep your peace. Exactly. We just, we were like one last thing and then we're like,

Carly: 50 last things. Tracy, you are a kindred spirit.

Connecting with Tracy McCubbin: Where to Find More Information

I'm just going to Anne of Green Gables you right now. You're my kindred spirit, and I really, really appreciate you being here today. Where can folks find you to learn more, to get your books, to follow along with the 5 Minute Decluttering?

Tracy: Absolutely. So TracyMcCubbin. com has everything. You can, if you sign up for my newsletter, you can get a PDF of the 25 Things to Declutter in Under Five Minutes.

Instagram at Tracy McCubbin. Fantastic. That's where I do most of my stuff, stuff. I have just started something really fun that we're being really successful with. I'm calling it Team Tracy, and you sign up for text, and texts from me, but they're little videos. So on Monday, I send you a challenge for the week, something we're going to tackle.

On Wednesday, I sent you a text of encouragement. And then Friday, I answer people's questions, specifically. I just found that I was getting so many DMs on Instagram that I can't even get to them, and I feel terrible. So I started Team Tracy. If you go to my Instagram profile, you can sign up there. It's 4.99 a month, you can try a, I think there's a free month trial, a free week trial, it's if you like it, and we're, it's great, we're getting great questions, and it's funny, we get a lot of the same questions, so I really get to dive in, so that's super fun, and then the books are everywhere, and if you're trying not to buy books, which I totally support, it is at most public libraries.

Carly: Love, love, love, love. All of those links will be in the show notes today and highly, highly encourage you to get in touch with Tracy and to follow along and sign up for Team Tracy as well. Thank you. Thank you again for being here, Tracy. I appreciate you.

Tracy: Thank you, Carly. Thank you so much.

We would love to make sure that your questions are answered for a question of the week or a future episode. So we love to hear from you. DM (on Instagram) or you can always email me, carly@tidyrevival.com. We love hearing from you. We love hearing your thoughts about the pod, and thank you so much for hanging out.

If you wanna learn more about how I can help you, feel free to head over to tidyrevival.com to learn how I work with people one-on-one or in our private community. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to subscribe so you'll always have access to the latest episode.

We would also love to hear your takeaways. Feel free to tag us on Instagram, Facebook, or TikTok. The Tidy Revival podcast is written and hosted by me, Carly Adams, and edited by Brittany McLean. Title Song Maverick is by Dresden The Flamingo.

and until next time, remember that…

 
 
 

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