Ep 39 - Empathy first: Featuring Angela O’Brien

Welcome to The Tidy Revival Podcast, where we believe in the transformative power of empathy. In this episode, we're joined by the incredible Angela O'Brien of Your Space Reclaimed. Together, we explore the importance of creating safe spaces for our clients, discuss the issues close to our hearts, and emphasize the value of connecting with our communities. Join us as we embrace empathy first, and ignite your passion for creating meaningful spaces and connections.

You can listen right here, on Apple, Amazon, Spotify or you can read the transcription below. Enjoy!

Carly: hey Angela.

Angela: How are you, Carly?

Carly: I'm good. We were just talking about how since this recording is going on both of our podcasts. Kicking it off is a little bit different.

So we'll just dig into it.

Angela: Yep. Let's just dig right in.

Carly: We met on Instagram and, following each other, found that we have some of the same. Values that we bring to the table with our organizing. And we'd been chatting in the DMs about, you know, those types of things and we were like, Hey, let's bring this conversation to our audiences.

Absolutely. I'm really excited about it. And one of the things that we were talking about recently that doesn't have to do with this conversation, but we thought would be really fun to talk about maybe as a little icebreaker as you will, are our prom stories. Because your daughter recently went to prom and was so beautiful.

Angela: She did. She was kind of cute. She knew it too.

Carly: I'm obsessed with her dress, so pretty.

Angela: So is she.

Carly: And it led us to talk a little bit about our own prom stories. I'm gonna let you kick it off. Tell me what you wore to prom. Tell me about your whole look.

Angela: Oh, oh, it was, it was 1987 and I actually had moved away in high school and I was headed back to Connecticut.

I'd moved to Wichita and headed back to Connecticut to attend my boyfriend's prom. It was prom and I was super excited. I mean, it was a big deal that my parents let me go and got to see all my friends that I missed. I was basically Pretty in Pink. I know that the listeners can't see this photo, but that is me in the middle. It's like Pepto-Bismol pink with the poofy shoulder pads and the long skirt covered up.

I'm surprised I'm not wearing gloves. We thought we looked great. I mean, we did for the time, you know?

Carly: Yeah. Okay. You remind me of the bridesmaid's dress from 16 Candles.

Angela: Oh. That is exactly it. That is how our listeners can get an idea, a visual of what I looked like in 1987, attending prom.

Of course, no one was doing our hair and makeup. We were doing all that. It was humid out. My hair was flat by the time we got to the prom. By the time we got to the pictures, you know, it just was. But we had so much fun.

Carly: Oh my gosh. Yeah,

Angela: So what about yours?

Carly: If you're open to it, I'm down to share these photos on social.

Angela: Of course. Why not?

Carly: I didn't dig it up before the recording, so I apologize because you came to the table prepared. I will show you this. It's gonna happen. But the year was 1999, is that right? No, 2000. It was my junior prom and I had a mouth full of braces. I was very cool. I played the trombone in the marching band and I was like this girl who was emotionally caught between my love of all things beautiful and dainty and things, but I also wanted to be like a punk rock princess. I was in a garage band.

Angela: Did you play the trombone in the garage band?

Carly: Yes. Because at this time ska was very big. We considered ourselves a sinister ska band, and we were called Bottoms Up, which is an appropriate name.

I was wearing this green Chiffon type of number. It was very, very inexpensive. And it had these little rosebuds, little appliques all around the front. I had my hair in curls piled on my head and the grin on my face. I still remember the Clinique eyeshadow palette that I got with the pink eyeshadow to match the roses.

And my mouth was just full of metal and the smile was like, As big as the room, and I just had a great time.

Angela: That's awesome. I love it. I love it. Yes. If only all of our kids now could have that kind of confidence, right? Like that's what they need.

Carly: Yeah. That's what I felt radiating from your daughter.

She looked so beautiful. I was like, Girl if you're not feeling that. I'm feeling that for her.

Angela: she was, she was hilarious. I actually made a video of us getting ready for prom of me getting her hair done and her makeup. it was hilarious. You can't really see it on the video because I did a time-lapse, but she, at one point, like, I get the makeup, I get the hair done, and I get the makeup out and she takes a look and she just got this grin. she was like, oh, I look good.

Like it hit her, you know, it was so cute. She just had a ball. It was really fun.

Carly: Yeah, I'm so happy for her. I have to share. Watching that video brought back a memory from when one of my sisters was in high school. I think I must have been visiting because I wasn't living at home when she was in high school.

So I must have been visiting or maybe it was when I moved back for a hot second. Even that time period doesn't add up actually. Maybe she's in middle school. I don't know. I can't remember. In my mind, she is in high school. But when I'm thinking about it, I was like, was I visiting? Anyways, she came home and she had like a church function or band or something and then had maybe 30 minutes to get ready for a formal and then leave.

And I am in a household of four girls. I'm the oldest. She's the youngest. We were like, we got you, girl. One of us was doing her makeup and the other two were doing the hair and we whipped her in and out looking amazing.

Angela: That is awesome.

Carly: It was so much fun and so chaotic. We always shared one bathroom, this little bathroom. That bathroom was always chaos, but that day, I mean, it's like one of my happiest memories from growing up.

Angela: isn't the getting ready part just as much fun, if not more than the actual event? it's just fun to dress up and get ready and feel pretty.

Carly: Yeah, same. I love it. You feel like a little princess.

Okay. Well, now that we know all about our prom stories, which some might argue is the most important part of this whole conversation. Let's kick off some intros. I know that you said I'd go first.

So, my name is Carly Adams.

For those of you who don't know me, I'm the owner of Tidy Revival. I am a community creator. I'm a podcaster and I help people get their homes organized as my day job. I love helping people with too much stuff create clutter-free spaces with simple systems so they can do more of what they love.

And I'm located in Sacramento, California, which is why I am so excited that we met online. I feel like Instagram makes some fun relationships possible.

Angela: Absolutely. Absolutely. So for those that don't know me, I'm Angela O'Brien. I am the owner of Your Space Reclaimed Professional Organizing, and I am a professional organizer here in Dallas, Texas.

I am also the mom, obviously, of my daughter Casey, and she has Down Syndrome. She's 19. I also have a son who's out in school in California. I've been a stay-at-home mom and I've been an advocate for both my kids for all their lives. I am very involved in the Down Syndrome community.

Once I started doing professional organizing, I got even more involved in the special needs community. I've kind of switched gears in the last year and really started to focus on helping families of people with special needs get organized. While it's pretty similar to organizing for other families, there are some different challenges and different emotional things that we go through.

So, I feel that my experience has called me to start working with these families. I started a podcast this year called Especially Organized, and here we are.

Carly: So awesome. I love the work that you do and I love the advocacy that you do and yeah, that's really what brought us together today.

Angela: well, what I can say about that is I reached out to you, I think, because I somehow found you on Instagram and I checked out your website and I was so impressed with how you had your values upfront and center on your website and how you are a strong LGBTQ advocate, and you are a great supporter of that community. I have a gay son and a daughter with Down Syndrome. So I have two kids that I advocate for, two kids that I consider myself a mama bear of. So I was just so impressed that you had that all over your website and that it is such an important part of your business and how you use your values to communicate what you want to accomplish with your clients.

So I reached out to you because I was so impressed, and then here we are.

Carly: I appreciate you saying that so much. I remember I was in a workshop in 2020 when everything was going on in the wake of George Floyd's death. The Black Lives Matter movement was really at its, I don't wanna say peak, but there was just a lot going on in that space.

I was in this workshop and we were talking about company values and how essentially like being proud about how being proud about your values matters and with everything that was going on. I know that some people, “found it divisive” if they talked about it, but at the same time, what that really meant is that you're not speaking up for the people that you're trying to help.

And if you're not speaking up, then you're not helping anything. Right? So, In that, there was a pledge that they inspired us to be a part of. One of the components was being loud and proud about your values and It really hit home for me. I know if you listen to my podcast and you've listened for a while like none of this is new stuff.

But if you're at Angela's podcast, hi. I grew up in a really conservative household and super religious and very conservative. I just got the direct impression in life that being gay was not okay, and that didn't really feel like a safe option for me. So there were a lot of things that I wasn't ready to be out and proud and loud about. It took me until I was 36 to fully come out to my parents and more people in my life. Especially in the last year, I kind of made the rounds with some people close in my life. I was like, Hey, I'm gonna start talking about this more so if we haven't gotten to it yet, I'm Bi. FYI so you don't learn it on the internet because I'm tired of not talking about it and kind of tiptoeing around certain people's feelings. So I'm like, well, everyone's just gonna have to get over it because it is what it is and it actually affects you zero.

So, here we are. And then now it's just been a bigger part of what's important to me. it's not about allyship, but about being in the community and then for other communities saying I got your back.

I give a lot of…

I don't know how you feel about cursing.

A lot of poops.

I just wanna be more cognizant of how I represent my personal values, as the company values, because I can.

Angela: Yeah. Well, and I think too, you are supporting your community by being your authentic self as you are in your community, on your podcast, throughout your website, in your work, all of those things, right?

And so you can't support your community without being your authentic person in showing that. You know?

Carly: Honestly, too, it's like, yeah, you can't support the community and you can't support yourself. Right? Yeah. You know, you can't support yourself. I think that's been the biggest thing in the last couple of years where it's been kind of like rediscovering who I am as a person. Especially when you start a business in our industry. This isn't to critique the industry.

I just think that in general, It can feel easier to paint a picture of “perfection” as the person who knows the secrets of organization. Perfection is something that people kind of equate with home organization sometimes.

Angela: I agree. Yes.

Carly: I feel it's very dangerous and it's not helpful.

I can't tell you the number of times that people have said like, oh, your home must be perfect. Right? And it's like, no, my home is not perfect. We just all find simple systems that work for us. We try to maintain them and then sometimes we have to go ahead and redo them. And we're decluttering too.

We all have things we're working on. Perfection is a myth.

Angela: Perfection is a myth. Yes. I've definitely had people say, oh, I will never let you look in my closets. I would never let you look in that house or that room or whatever. I've had relatives say that to me.

Carly: Me too.

Angela: You know? And I'm like, no, you don't understand.

I am not here to judge. None of us are perfect. I love to talk about the room or the garage or the basement that's like where things go to die, you know? You close the door and we all have that. We all have a space like that. We all have.

We can't always be on top of all of our stuff all the time. Professional organizers are no exception to that. Yeah.

Carly: And those are my favorite spaces to work in. Same. Yeah.

Angela: Yeah. I love it. My favorite client was a 20-year-old with a garage that had not been touched in 20 years.

Took us three months. We had a ball. It was awesome.

Carly: Because at that point people are letting their guard down, you know? We have a little slogan on my podcast and I'll edit it for cursing for yours.

Angela: That's all right. I'm okay with that. We could have a little spice in it.

Yeah. All right.

Carly: All right. We say I have like a disclaimer at the beginning. Like the show is not for little ears. I'm like, we're going through your shit. while we're going through your shit.

Angela: Which I love, I love that. That's what just like hooked me. It just hooked me. I love it

Carly: It's so emotional.

Angela: it really is

Carly: To be someone that people many times start working with as a complete stranger who then is like part of these very vulnerable places in their home. What an honor.

Angela: Oh, absolutely. I get to see things that not many people get to see, you know? When they let me in and when they really trust me. I so appreciate that and I hold that privilege very, very softly and carefully, you know? It is a gift and it is a privilege to be able to help these people and enter these spaces. These emotional situations where they're going through and they're trying to figure stuff out, you know? We have to safeguard that, and we have to be careful with that. We must acknowledge that.

It's the emotion and it's the physical thing. I mean, I've seen financial statements, I've seen all kinds of stuff. We have to realize the importance of No judgment and the ability, the gift that that is to us.

Carly: Yeah. To be given that trust is amazing. And yeah, you're right. We see all the things. It's for us to take it and zip it

Angela: Exactly.

Carly: And just put it in the vault.

Angela: Yeah. And to help them figure out how to live their life better in a more organized way that helps them in whatever way that is for them.

Carly: I know you do a lot of work with the Enneagram.

Angela: I do, I do, I do some work. I'm certified as an Enneagram coach, and I do speak on it. I love to share about it. I love to introduce it to people so that they can get started on their journey because I do think it's a very personal journey.

I do try to use it some in my work, but I'm not like, Hey, here, can you take this test so that I can see what number you are? That's not really the point of it. I understand enough about the Enneagram so that I can get an idea of when I'm working with someone where they might fall. And so that might, that might help me figure out the best way to work with them.

So that's how I use it. I will work one-on-one with people sometimes if they're struggling with trying to figure out their type. I will utilize it in that way and I, like I said, I love to speak about it and share about it and then introduce people to it so that they can kind of start their own journey. So that's how I use it. It is my favorite thing to speak about it at women's groups. I've done a couple of companies, too.

And things like that. So it is super fun. But it's definitely a tool. Each client is different and their spaces are different, too. So we have to treat them differently. The Enneagram is just another tool in my toolbox that I use, you know? It is helpful. It's really helpful.

Carly: Yeah, and I can definitely see that. I know that I let you know as full disclosure before we recorded that the enneagram is one of those things I know about and I have friends that are very into it. I know enough about it to where I kind of like guessed my number.

Angela: Oh, interesting. I was wondering.

Carly: Or you know people and they're like, oh, you're such a, whatever number it is. I remember telling someone once, I was like, oh, my friend thinks I might be this number, so I'm just gonna go with that. And she's like, no, you can never guess somebody else's number.

You need to take the test. It's very personal. And I was like, okay. All right. Well, when it comes up again, I will take the test. I took the test and I found out I'm an eight. When I was reading it, I was like, well, that's me.

Angela: So it made sense to you.

I actually recommend that if people wanna take a test, that's awesome, but the best way is to start reading about it and learn a little bit about each type and then start to narrow it down. Sometimes those tests are not very accurate with the Enneagram, and the reason is that the Enneagram is based on our motivations and not our behavior.

So it can be very difficult as we're taking a test to know what our true motivations are. There's always the behavior issue. You could always like, you know, that was the behavior, but it can be a little more difficult when it comes to what motivates someone.

Carly: So, yeah. Yeah, it's really fun.

When you were saying about how you use it as a tool for clients, it made me think of this other personality thing. I won't get into it, but Brittany, who edits this podcast, she's our content manager. She basically makes my life run and makes Tidy Revival happen. We did a different test together as the client to help us understand.

Angela: Oh, interesting.

Carly: Yeah. And this one was kind of a financial personality test, so maybe more how you'd be motivated to shop, save, that sort of thing.

So from a marketing perspective. It was really interesting to take it as someone else because our ideal client is neither Brittany nor myself. But, as we were taking it together, We were like “Oh, that's so her.” “Oh, that's absolutely her.” We were really agreeing on the answers.

I think that those types of personality assessments can be really helpful. If other organizers are listening, take a personality test as your ideal client. So that you can dig more into their motivations and their patterns.

Angela: Yeah. Yeah. There's a great book. We can put this in the show notes. I always recommend this.

The Road Back to You by Ian Morgan Cron and Suzanne Stabile. Suzanne actually lives in Dallas, so I've gotten to take a fair amount of her classes. She's not who certified me, but she's a great teacher. It's a really great primer, easy to read, easy to learn about each of the numbers, and so you get this broad range, like just a general education.

One of the benefits of the Enneagram is not just learning about yourself, but having some compassion for the other numbers and how they think, how they feel, what they do, and why they do it. When we have that compassion and that understanding and that empathy, it helps us work better, understand things better, you know, all of those things.

We can run society better, really. I truly believe that.

Carly: I'm absolutely with you on that. So let's talk about our clients and the safe spaces we wanna create for them.

Angela: Yeah.

Carly: I know you'd mentioned when you're working with your parents of special needs children, how some of the practices that you have are the same as other clients, but there are other considerations that you might be making along the way. Can you expand on that a little bit?

Angela: Organizing for families of special needs is quite similar, obviously, but one of the main differences is that I think we have when I think about what one of my mentors Lori Palau talks about is the clutter pitfalls. There's Indecision, there's overwhelm, guilt, time, and procrastination.

Moms and dads of kids with special needs, We have a lot of overwhelmed because we're dealing with a lot more doctor's appointments and a lot more therapy. We are having to spend extra time with our children to do some of the more basic tasks maybe so we have less time.

We have a lot of overwhelm and I think that we also have a fair amount of guilt. It shouldn't be there, but society brings that onto us because maybe our kids aren't developing to the level that we would like them to be, or to the level that a typical child might be. I've had a mom talk to me about she couldn't get rid of some of these baby toys that her eight-year-old had because her child wasn't reading yet and she thought that these alphabet blocks might still be helping.

And she had that guilt that if I let go of this If I release these then I am not helping my child learn to read. So those kinds of things, I think they're just some emotional components that come into play. And so I think just having some compassion and understanding for what that's like as a mom.

I think it helps them to come in that way. Think about things differently, work on their mindset, and understand where that overwhelm is coming from. Also hopefully to reduce some of that guilt. Then we just work on, and as far as time goes, you know, just trying to set up systems that help reduce the time needed for whatever it is. Whether it's a morning routine, or trying to get out the door setting up systems that reduce some of the chaos of those transitions. Setting up calendars for, like, my daughter is really visual and she's very aware of the calendar and what is going on. She wants to understand what's next.

So we do that with a calendar in her room. It's a dry erase and it's a monthly calendar. Some people need a written calendar by the day, some people need pictures, and other things. But for her, it's very helpful because it reduces the number of questions that I get all the time. After all, she understands what's coming next so she doesn't have to continue to ask.

Those are some of the things that I think about as I'm working with families.

Carly: I love that. Yeah. Yeah. I love that so much.

Angela: Yeah. Yeah. So your turn. I wanna understand what you do when you are working with your clients and how you make them feel like they are in that safe space that we wanna create for them.

Carly: Yeah. My goal in talking about it more is… there are a lot of mean people out there in the world. There just are. Especially for the LGBTQ community, feeling safe is gonna be a really big thing. Depending on where you are, depending on if you're around new people, like even talking about things may not be safe, let alone disclosing your whole life. Right? So if I have families where it's two moms, it's two dads, their kids are there. I want it to be front and center on my social. I want you to see that I'm a part of the rainbow chamber when you go to my site so you can see immediately without ever connecting with me that l got your back. Even if you don't have my vibe yet, at least you know that. It's like when businesses have a little rainbow sticker in their doorway. They're like, come on in. I got you.

Angela: And then they know they feel safe. That uncertainty isn't there, right? Yes. Yeah.

Carly: Yeah. Then from there, we'll get into personality. Do you like me as a person? Because if not, I'm not gonna be everyone's cup of tea. I get that. And that's also totally fine. My goal is to always help people find the right person that's there for them. But especially too for like, you know, we'll post on social about the trans day of visibility and other issues. Especially for my trans brothers and sisters, I want them to know that this is a safe space. I want them to know that if they needed an organizer but didn't know where to start In finding somebody that I'm not gonna come in and have like a bunch of questions about your medicine, I'm not gonna be asking a bunch of questions as we're going through your closet as to like, wait, wait, what?

You know what I mean?

Angela: what's this for? Yeah.

Carly: There's a shorthand. Depending on how far folks are in a transition or how out they are or just where they're at in that journey. That can be really difficult because you end up having essentially two wardrobes. As things shift in your journey, that's when you may be purging some parts and not other parts. Getting more of some things. There are all these different things that come into play.

Around the bathroom too. You end up having like a lot more Accoutrements. Especially on the side of medications and all sorts of things. So yeah, want to let folks know that this is a safe space where somebody has that shorthand that they don't have to explain things, that everything's gonna be fine.

That’s the most important part on my end.

Angela: Yeah. I love that though. It transfers over into my community of special needs where we might have equipment, wheelchairs or walkers or you know, things for their hands or their feet. It's this hurdle that our clients don't have to worry about that they don't have to be guarded with their questions, because we're gonna walk in and we're gonna already have an understanding and appreciation and empathy and we'll just move right on. Yeah. Yeah.

Carly: It's that shorthand.

Angela: Yeah, exactly. I love that. I love that phrase. Yeah.

Carly: I love it. So let's talk about some of the benefits of having an organizer at all.

Oh, and that's in our notes, too- the shorthand of having someone there who knows where you're coming from.

Angela: There we go.

Carly: Can you tell I like that phrase a lot?

Hiring an organizer in your home isn't gonna be the right choice for everyone. If you don't feel like you need it, well then, don't worry about it. This part isn't for you. Feel free to just skip on ahead.

But for a lot of folks, they're wondering, Do I need that extra help? Like why? I often hear clients say they feel guilty. They should have been able to do it by themselves. Which I think stinks. The reason I think it stinks is that a lot of us weren't born with that skill set.

Angela: No, no, no. Well, I think that I was, but I will give you an example. I have always been naturally organized, that's my jam. Like, I love it. That's my relaxation. But I will tell you, when it comes to things like health, I've had to hire a health coach. For the last couple of years, I've been dealing with some back stuff. I have got to keep my health in check. I have a daughter that needs me for a long time, so I really, it's really important to me.

So I've had to hire someone to help me do that. I liken it to hiring a professional organizer. That is not my skill set in understanding the right foods that I need to eat. And understanding nutrition and brain health and gut health. So I've had to hire that expertise out. It's the same thing as hiring a personal trainer or someone to do your hair or going to the dentist, right?

It's, it's very similar, you know, I'm never gonna clean my own teeth to that extent. I don't have the skills or the, or the materials, the equipment, you know?

Carly: So I grew up as a chronically disorganized person.

Angela: Oh, interesting.

Carly: Yeah. I did not have the skillset.

But something that I talk about a lot is that when you hire an organizer, you're hiring somebody who's done hundreds of hours of research. Either because they were on their own journey or for fun.

Angela: Yeah, fun. So fun over here.

Carly: Yeah. Or both. Yeah. Yeah. I did a ton of research when I was going through it. Now it's just for fun.

I did not have that skill set at all and to be able to help people cut through what I found didn't work for me and draw on, let me just pinpoint exactly some big changes you can make or small changes that have a big impact over time. Yeah. So the benefit of hiring an organizer is that you're getting the short version. And then if I suggest something to a client that maybe worked well for me but doesn't for them, there are other things that I can draw on as well, other strategies that I've seen online or in a book or a TV show or whatever it is that we can say, okay, what about this way?

I think that's a really important part of it too, just listening.

Angela: Yeah, and I was gonna say, asking the right questions too, right? Asking the right questions to get at the heart of what they need. What system would be the best for them in their space, right?

Carly: Mm-hmm. I think something in our industry that's really interesting is that when folks haven't worked with an organizer, I think that they can get the impression that we think our job is to come in and just tell you to get rid of everything. Right. Just throw it away. And that's the fear that people have.

Really we're just here to ask a bunch of questions.

Angela: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And to help them think about it a little bit differently too. Help them learn the right questions to ask themselves so that they don't need me. I mean, we have to work ourselves out the job, you know?

Yeah.

Carly: Yeah. I think that that's so amazing because when people can walk away and say, you didn't really make me do anything. You just asked me a bunch of questions. And then I decided it's like, Yeah. That's the process.

Angela: Yeah. That's 90% of it, you know, the bins and the baskets are great, but when it really comes down to it, it's what is working for you and how you are thinking about it, how you are approaching it.

Carly: Ugh. I love it so much.

Angela: Yeah, moving on, we were both talking about why or the importance really of talking to our communities and why that's important.

All of this got started for me by focusing on the special needs community by presenting to a group of moms who had kids with Down Syndrome. The discussion that ensued from that was so enlightening and so helpful.

Someone would bring up an issue and another person would say, Hey, oh yeah, my daughter does the same thing, and here's an idea. This is what we did. These were kind of unique to families of kids with special needs. I thought, oh my gosh, this group needs a voice and they need to know that they are not alone. I think just that helped ease some of their concerns and their frustrations and their guilt. Being able to share with the special needs community that they are not alone in going through what they're going through. Organizing is just another aspect of their lives and there are people here to help. We can all learn from each other. That was really the reason that I got started doing this.

Carly: I think for our clients, no matter where they're coming from. I can absolutely see how that can be especially tough for your folks. It can feel incredibly isolating.

Especially if we're on social and we're just seeing everybody's highlight reels. You might not put it together that this person with a picture-perfect family. They're always posting these beautiful, play dates at the park or picnics or whatever. You might not know that even though they're posting these beautiful picture-perfect things, they might be struggling in other areas.

Maybe that's why you don't see their house. Everybody's going through their own stuff. None of us are perfect. No, but I think that social specifically can feel incredibly isolating. I've had many people say to me like, I feel like there's something wrong with me. Why can't I do it?

Angela: Oh, yeah. That's hard to hear.

Carly: It's really hard to hear. It's heartbreaking. If you're listening and that's resonating at all, I don't want it to go unsaid. There's nothing wrong with you.

Angela: Absolutely. Absolutely, yes. There's nothing wrong. We all have our stuff. Those Pinterest worthy pictures that you see on social media… if that person turned the camera around,I can only imagine what you would probably see. So just remember that listeners.

Yes, there's so many times, and I need to do a better job of this, but I have clients where they're not like trying to match their hangers, and have perfect hangers. They're just trying to set up better systems. It doesn't have to be Pinterest-worthy to be amazing for what you need it to be or to be life-changing, honestly. It doesn't have to be that way. Lots of times it doesn't matter to me. There's been many clients I've had where we don't buy one bin. We don't. I'm not going to The Container Store, anything. We are just setting up better systems. We're using what you have, we are making it easier for you to live your life in the way that you wanna live it.

Carly: For a lot of people, having that permission slip of, no, you don't have to go to Container Store and spend $400 on plastic or acrylic bins to count as getting organized.

Absolutely. I think that's so important. Creating a beautiful pantry, is it nice? Yes. Like do I enjoy? Yes. Is that what I consider my real job? No. No. My real job is helping people figure out how to make decisions about what's in their house so that they can find the appropriate amount they can live with.

What is the appropriate amount of stuff for them?

Angela: Yeah. Yeah. Being able to retrieve what they need when they need it quickly and easily. Right. And being able to put it away easily, especially for our ADHD people, our people with special needs. We need to be able to put it away just as easily as we need to be able to retrieve it.

That's hard too. So just how simple can we make things?

Carly: Angela, I'm smiling like an idiot right now because I have this class that I teach and in one of the lines is let's talk about what a system is. I say what you just said verbatim.

Angela: That's awesome.

Carly: A system is, yeah, being able to find what you need and put it away. Being able to find what you need when you need it and put it away easily.

That's it.

Angela: Yep. Yeah. That's all it is. Yeah. That's all we're really helping people do.

Carly: Yeah. I can't remember where I talked about this recently, but even in my own room… in my underwear drawer. It's like underwear, socks, and a couple of my sports bras and stuff and a couple of nightgowns. It's my go-to drawer for these different things.

I have had the same, so it must have been since we bought the dresser, so like five or so years ago. I just set it up with some shoe boxes, like just from shoes, not the cute acrylic kind, like regular shoe boxes. They fit. I set up the system. It has worked perfectly. I have no intention of switching it out. Nothing's becoming so worn that it's not working anymore. It gives me the separation I needed. And I'm like, yeah, I don't care.

Angela: why would you switch that out when no one else is seeing it? You don't care. It's functional, right? Like why would you spend the money on that? When you could do that on something else that you would rather spend the money on that you see that makes you feel happy and loved, you know? So I'm all for that. Keep it simple. Keep it simple.

Carly: Keep it simple. You know how they say the “KISS” message? Keep it simple, stupid. I like to say silly. Keep it simple, Silly.

Angela: I love that. I like that much better. That's awesome. Yes, I know. My daughter won't let me use the word stupid. She says that's a bad word. So we are not allowed to use the word stupid here.

Carly: We weren't allowed to use that in our house either. Actually, now that you say that, I'm like, oh, that's totally why I have an aversion to that.

But I'm just like, make it silly.

Angela: Keep it simple, silly. Like Yeah, I love that. I love that. That's awesome.

Carly: Okay. So we wanted to let you know that if any of this resonates with you guys and you are looking to get help in your home. if you're local to Sac or Dallas, you can let us know.

Absolutely. If you're not local to Sac or Dallas, we also do virtual organizing. Which is a lot of fun.

Angela: Yeah. And that really, I think it's just a guide, right? To give you a starting point, to move on your own, and to be there, right? This voice on your shoulder to be like, oh, okay, let's think about how this works. How would you do that?

Carly: it's like an intense accountability partner. Absolutely, yes. In a good way. Yeah.

Angela: Right, right. Not in a frustrating, like seriously.

Carly: Go, go. Yeah.

Angela: Not in a stressful way.

Carly: No, no. In a fun, Hey, okay, I'm stuck. Let's go through this type of way.

I've been doing virtual organizing since 2020 and it was really interesting to me because I was thinking about like, oh, I should start that. That sounds like something maybe I'll look into in like 2021, whatever maybe in the future. Then there was an immediate need so that I could keep working and I found that it's always inspiring for me as the person who's leading it. And also I j get so happy when somebody is not close physically at all, like if you're on the East Coast or I was helping someone through a moving process and they were overseas and I was like we're doing it. We are doing the dang thing right now on the internet, and that will never stop making me happy.

Angela: That is awesome. I love that. Yeah. Being able to impact someone that's so far away. Who would've thought that 20 years ago, you know? It's pretty amazing.

Carly: I love it so much. Yeah. Well, for my folks, Angela, is there anything else that you would want to leave as a takeaway? Any last thoughts?

Angela: Oh gosh. I think one, don't be afraid to reach out for help to either a professional organizer or a friend. It doesn't have to be a professional. it's okay to want help in this area. No one should be judged for that and no one should feel ashamed for that.

So I hope that you can get inspired. If you can't figure it out, ask for help. Even if it's just one hour of virtual to get started with just simple things.

Carly: Get that action plan in place.

Angela: Yeah. Yeah. I don't want people to feel embarrassed or anything for reaching out to a professional organizer

Carly: a hundred percent. We say this all the time in our line of work. We are not in the business of judging.

Angela: Right? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything else you would add?

Carly: I just wanna echo what you said. We're not here to judge. We have seen it all, and we are not here to say, oh, is this the worst you've ever seen?

Do people say that when you go to their house all the time?

Angela: Oh, everybody, everybody says that. And I'm like, trust me, it is not the worst.

Carly: And also, even if it was, I wouldn't say that to you. Right? That's not nice.

Angela: Exactly. I would never say that.

Carly: That's not nice. We've got your back. That's what it boils down to.

We've got your back. We're here to help you with kindness, love, understanding, and a bunch of patience.

Angela: Yes, absolutely. A bunch of patience. I think too, a reminder that honestly, at least for me, this is fun. The challenge of it is fun. I know it's probably not fun to the person who's reaching out who's my client, but it's fun for me.

I enjoy it. So I don't mind the stress of it or the challenge of it, or the frustration of it, because it's not mine. Instead, it is a puzzle and it's It's a challenge to me, so I enjoy it. So let me have it.

Carly: Yeah. Our specific joy is getting you to the other side of the frustration.

Angela: Exactly. Exactly. I just love it when clients say, oh, I feel so much better. That makes me so happy. I was just telling another organizer that if I have a big job coming up the next day, or if I'm going back to one, I'll be dreaming about it at night.

Like, I think about it, you know? Oh, yeah. All the time.

Carly: Mm-hmm. Especially if there's kind of an emotional mountain that you know is coming up for them. Yeah. Sometimes as I'm going to bed, I'm thinking in pep talks.

Angela: Oh, I love that.

Carly: I love that. Like, okay, how are we gonna approach this?

Yeah. I need to get psyched up for things all the time and I love being like a cheerleader for a client.

Angela: Yeah. That's what we are. We're part cheerleader. We're… oh my gosh.

Carly: Unlicensed therapist,

Angela: counselor. Unlicensed therapist, mentor, mover, shaker, shopper,

Carly: hauler.

Angela: I was a dog walker at one point. My sweet client who is just one of my favorite clients. They're all my favorite clients, but I've had her for a long time. She had knee surgery and her dogs got out while I was there, so I was running down the street, grabbing the dogs. You know, I'm like, well, this is part of my job today.

I'm a dog walker, you know? Mm-hmm.

Carly: Yeah. That's okay. Sometimes you're a baby holder. We play a lot of roles and it's fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Angela: and it's okay. I love it. That's what makes this job fun. Totally.

Carly: I am really happy to sit with you today and talk with you, Angela. Thank you.

Angela: So fun.

Thank you for the suggestion. You came up with a suggestion and I love it, and I just can't thank you enough. I could talk to you forever.

Carly: We really could. I’m sure we'll probably circle back soon.

Angela: We will. We will, for sure.

We would love to make sure that your questions are answered for a question of the week or a future episode. So we love to hear from you. DM (on Instagram) or you can always email me, carly@tidyrevival.com. We love hearing from you. We love hearing your thoughts about the pod, and thank you so much for hanging out.

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We would also love to hear your takeaways. Feel free to tag us on Instagram, Facebook, or TikTok. The Tidy Revival podcast is written and hosted by me, Carly Adams, and edited by Brittany McLean. Title Song Maverick is by Dresden The Flamingo.

and until next time, remember that…