Ep 43 - Summer Break Series:Ep 5 - The Benefits of Decluttering: Featuring Tami Hackbarth - Part 1

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#5 -The Benefits of Decluttering: Featuring Tami Hackbarth - Part 1

How can you tweak your space to fit your needs and evolve as your needs do? Tami Hackbarth joins me to chat about how decluttering and self-care go hand in hand.

Carly: Welcome to the Tidy Revival podcast. I'm your host, Carly Adams and today I am so excited to bring you a conversation with one of my dear friends. She is also an amazing self-care coach. She is a student in the Clutter-Free Home Process. We have worked together extensively, meaning I have worked with her. She has worked with me. I have nothing but wonderful things to say about this woman. She's one of my favorite humans. No pressure Tami.

Tami Hackbarth is the 100% Guilt-Free Self-Care coach. She works with professionals who want to get their time and energy back so they can create the world they want to live in. She believes a hundred percent guilt-free self-care is the answer to creating your dream life. She brings a philosophy of self-compassion, kindness, and humor to her work. Tami is a voracious reader and lifelong learner. I have to say before I let her say anything, that she has changed my life in business and helped take me from getting to the very, very brink of burnout and giving me the tools to move towards a more balanced life. So thank you so much and welcome Tami.

Tami: Hi, thanks. I'm so happy to be here with you.

Carly: I am so happy that you're here too. I will plug your podcast before we even get started, she has an amazing podcast called 100% Guilt-Free Self-Care with Tami Hackbarth. I have been a guest a couple of times, so I'm very excited to have you on my podcast.

Tami: Thank you. I've been waiting for years for you to start one, so I'm happy to be here. Just waiting for my invitation.

Carly: You know as soon as the podcast was getting started, that yours was one of the very first invitations. Absolutely. A hundred percent. so let's just dive into it because today we are going to be talking about the benefits of decluttering and because Tami is a self-care coach and because we have worked together so extensively, I wanted to dig into this with her because she sees this as a need frequently in the work that she does too.

How do decluttering and organization play into self-care?

Tami: how doesn't it really? There are so many ways that I could look at this. So the first is, decision fatigue is a real thing. So tons of people come to me cuz they're like, I am overwhelmed. I bet That's why they come to you too.

Carly: A hundred percent.

Tami: I'm super tired. I bet That's why they come to you too. I can't find anything. I'm such a hot mess. I'm so disorganized. If I could just get my shit together, everything would be great. I'm like, well you have your inside shit, but you also have your outside shit.

Tami: Let me introduce you to my friend, Carly. She will help you go through your outside shit. I'll help you go through your inside shit.

Tami: So they go together because what do we call clutter? deferred decisions.

Carly: What do we call your program?

Tami: Deferred maintenance. Because we're just putting it off, putting it off, putting it off.

Tami: just like when you're like, I'm going to read that thing on the internet. Leave the tab open. And you do that 300 times. Your computer's limping along. It is. It's like I can't do it anymore. Well, guess what friends? Your brain is exactly the same. Part of the reason why we're so tired is cuz we have too much stuff we've said yes, either actively or passively to too much stuff.

Tami: So the work that we do, even though you're working in the physical realm, I'm doing the same thing on the inside. I'm helping people declutter their schedule, declutter their thoughts to let go of stuff that doesn't work for them.

Carly: Ooh, can you give an example?

Tami: self-care is selfish. Bye. Not true. It’s kind of like how the patriarchy is keeping us all down by keeping us all tired. We can't disrupt the unjust world when we are tired from doing all the things or having too much stuff, right?

Tami: And one of the things that we say a lot in my house is too much of a good thing is still too much.

Carly: Oh my gosh. I say a lot that clutter, even though it's a thing that you find helpful is still clutter. It's like when you have Costco, you can't put away all the Costco and then you just have Costco piling up and it feels stressful. Even though you know you're going to use it, it's too much. If it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit.

Tami: Exactly. our brains are like single-processor computers. I can only do one thing at a time. so we choose how we're gonna use our bandwidth. you look at that Costco pile of toilet paper that yes, it's never gonna go bad. but is that how you wanna spend your bandwidth? just looking at extra stuff, or doing extra stuff.

Carly: the fatigue though. is one of the reasons, and I talk about this a lot. I swear this is a quick aside. One of the reasons that I do a capsule wardrobe now is because I used to spend so much time and energy getting ready in the morning, like a lot of time.

Carly: And now I pick out an outfit and I put it on. I'm ready to go. Like most days, less than five minutes. And it's because what's in front of me is good for this season. It fits. I know I like it. And I can move forward with my day instead of having a closet full of ill-fitting, only bought it because it was $7, couldn't decide if I hated it or not, and still took it home, and put it on 20 times. Have never worn it. still in my closet. Won't get rid of it. And it's that times a hundred. And it's just overflowing. Your brain still has to say yes, no, yes, no, yes, no, yes, no to everything. if you just have a smaller selection that is all yeses, your brain doesn't have to compute that.

Everyone wants more willpower

Tami: It's funny. You said in my bio that I read a lot. And so recently I read a book about how everybody wants more willpower. When you wake up in the morning after eight restful hours or seven or nine or 20 or whatever, however many hours it takes for you to feel restful when you open your beautiful eyes for the very first time, your willpower cup, runneth over. That's why everyone can eat a healthy breakfast. unless you're hungover, In which case see the earlier comment about being well rested.

Tami: but it diminishes quickly as you go through the day. That's why people are up, shoveling fistfuls of Oreos in their mouth at 10 p.m. because they're overtired, they used up all their willpower at like noon. And they're like, I just fall apart at the end of the day. Yeah. No shit. Because you run out of the things that you needed to make the decisions that you want. It's been so funny recently. My husband is a teacher and I have a student. I'm a super introvert. There are times in the summer when I'm like, okay, you know what?

Tami: Everyone needs to stop talking to me. And that happened the other day at breakfast. my kid probably asked me 15 questions before I had put a single morsel of food in my mouth. And I was like, oh, raise your hand if you figured out why you're so irritable already. And it was because I was like, you are stealing all my decisions for the day. It's 7:15 in the morning. Stop asking me questions.

Tami: So what does it have to do with self-care? everything. What do we want to do? We want to do less, better. Not so we can be more part of the capitalist, get all the things. No, I want to do less things. have less things that are Princess and The Pea perfect. just the right size job, just the right size house. I wanna be Goldilocks. And that's what a capsule wardrobe does. It makes you super intentional one time. You make all those decisions once, and then you reap the benefits of that over and over.

Carly: I will say that since I do it seasonally, I switch things out four times a year, but because seasons change and the clothes won't work. What that means is that I am making decisions faster. It doesn't feel like an overwhelming thing. It's more like, oh, today is the day that I'm going to switch out my wardrobe. then I can make decisions like am I over this?

Carly: That's fine. I love shopping and thrifting, but not all the time. being more intentional. So I don't wanna just bring something home willy-nilly. I want to know that I'm going to like it and that I'm going to want to wear it. it allows you to be more thoughtful about the decisions and more discerning because you don't want to declutter it in six months.

Tami: or you don't want to look at it over and over and over.

Tami: I hear this a lot from clients, friends…. everyone.t a lot of us grew up with parents or grandparents from the depression. They lived in the depression. So there was a lot of it's good enough. It's close enough. so you have like 20 almost right things. then when you get the one perfect thing, you're like, Ooh, I don't have to do anything else.

Carly: That's why we talk so much about decluttering first and then figuring out your solutions because you're not going to be choosing from a bunch of bins that you brought home from the store randomly because they were cute and maybe they'll work in the space. it's more like, what problem am I trying to solve for this specific space? What are the measurements? Let's find a great solution so that I don't have a bunch of extra bins as clutter. Now I just have the thing that fits wonderfully for this space and makes me happy every day, because it's the solution.

Tami: I have to say though, I have many bins that I was like, I'm gonna make these work. so many bins. But you were like, what if we had a ranking of which bins would be the perfect bins? I was like, does that even exist? And you're like, what about this? You have these great questions to discern which ones would go.

Tami: Now what did we figure out? I'm a no lid clear or opaque labeled bin on pretty much every shelf. Who knew, who knew that a lid was going to ruin my goddamn life?

Carly: I did.

Tami: And I know you did. exactly. This is why you hire a professional because you have a depth of knowledge that I don't have. And I have a depth of knowledge about self-care practices. I'm a yoga teacher, I've been practicing yoga for 25 years. Like all of these things. and so I bring that depth. We also nerd out about decluttering time and energy and space in the calendar. Because what do we love? No.

Carly: that's our favorite

Tami: And somebody just went, you love no? Yes.

Carly: Love it.

Tami: We love no.

Carly: Best friends.

Tami: Best friends. Being best friends with no. It Will legit change your life.

Carly: I'm gonna backtrack for two seconds just in case someone at home is saying, wait, wait, wait, are you telling me to never reuse anything at my house that I already have? No, I am not saying that. if you're decluttering at home and you already have a bunch of supplies and you want to use those up, that's fine. What I am saying is that if you're going to start an organizing project, begin with decluttering, don't begin at the store hoping those solutions will work. If you don't have the bins yet, just leave them until you've decluttered a space, and figure out what problem you're trying to solve. Then you can solve it most effectively. That's my one little caveat before I move forward,

Tami: I have a self-care caveat, and that is if you're spending a lot of money on it, you probably don't need it. I would say for people getting started with decluttering their mindset, start saying no, which is decluttering your schedule. start setting boundaries. All of those things are free. They're just the hard things. Do you know what's easy?

Carly: Shopping.

Tami: Shopping.

Carly: Based on the latest Container Store ad. no shade to the Container Store. You know, I love you. See you next week.

Tami: Oh, totally. And also maybe they should be a sponsor.

Carly: I know. All right. We just both had a moment.

Carly: We worked extensively together for the first time in 2019, So pre-pandemic. For the folks at home, we've talked about this before, too, so it's not a Tami ambush, but you worked with me for six months decluttering in your home. I worked with you for six months going through your coaching program. We got to know each other's processes intimately.

Tweaking your space as life changes

Carly: That happened in 2019. Then in 2020, some things changed in your life/ the whole world. there were some tweaks that you made. Let's talk about how you've tweaked your space to fit your needs over the last couple of years.

Tami: As you said, we got our house in like top ship-shop shape. It was the best. if you're going into a global pandemic, you should declutter with Carly for six months in your house. because everything's gone. It was like, oh, whew, I'm glad this didn't happen before we decluttered.

Tami: don't worry. We tried to fill our space right back up. remember at the beginning when you couldn't get rid of anything and everyone's like, I guess we're all gonna be swimming in grocery bags? Yes. Everyone's got them. nobody could use reusable. That being said, because we lived in our space so extensively for like a year. We were all home. What I figured out is, oh, that thing that we did together. I lived with it and was like, Now that all the clutter is gone. Now we just, you know, have our COVID bags. Now that all the clutter is gone and stuff is gone in a certain way, I'm like, what's still bugging me? then I could make teeny tiny tweaks. I can't tell you. I think I'm in the fourth place for spices in my kitchen. and now I love them. Oh my God. Now I love them.

Carly: Where are they now?

Tami: They're in a drawer. They're not in a skinny drawer. They're in a big drawer. I have a lot of spices. Then that space, where the spices were on the cabinet, then they got moved down. Then that cabinet is open.

Tami: I was like, oh, this If You Give A Mouse A Cookie in a good way.

Tami: A little Tetris situation. something that I learned from you is I don't ever wanna have to move something to get something. And I certainly don't wanna move something to put something back. going through each of the spaces as we were using them, I could say, oh, this doesn't work. This doesn't work. This doesn't work.

Tami: At the beginning of COVID, we had to make all of our spaces work differently. We had to set up a classroom for my teacher husband, which was mostly him taking over my office and doing it wrong, but still working on, putting it all back. but we also had to create a COVID dining room, and school situation, because my kid was at home for 626 days so then we had to come up with that situation and that changed, but that's evolved again.

Tami: I will say I used to get stuck and now I don't get stuck anymore. For two reasons. One, I know that decluttering, organization, home care maintenance, and all that stuff are exactly self-care.

Tami: How do we talk about self-care? from today until you're dead. everything's done in 20-minute spurts from now until forever. I cause my own suffering when I refuse to believe that that is true.

Tami: Like, I want it to rain today. I'm not in charge of that much. I'm in charge of brushing my teeth, all the things that you just do. Guess what? Just add 20 minutes of decluttering into everybody's schedule that lives in your home. suddenly you'd be like, okay, from now until forever.

Tami: you taught me to say, okay, well what's bugging me in this space, make a little tweak. that whole idea of this experiment. Right? So that's what we do in self-care too. what would happen if I walked four days a week for 20 minutes for 30 days? don't give up after three and be like, that's terrible. Do it for 30. get all your data points and then you can tweak what isn't working versus thinking everything has to start over. I had stories about how I was not an organized person and I had stories about how other people could get their shit together, but I couldn't.

Tami: what I learned is, that some people spend time on this doing the daily slog and then some people don't. And there's a choice there. Not surprisingly, When I do the daily slog, I’m way less cluttered. when I don't, I'm like, oh my God, who's in charge around here?! How did it get so cluttered so fast?

Tami: You get a tummy ache, if you don't plan your meals because you're eating, willy-nilly like a teenager, right?

Carly: I've been likening it to hydration. you can't go all day and not drink any water and then drink eight glasses right before you go to bed and call it good. your body is going to be very unhappy.

Tami: Also, You can't drink a gallon in one day and then wait seven days before you do it again.

Carly: Exactly.

Tami: I mean, I guess you could try, but good luck.

Carly: don't. Don't do it.

Tami: Don't do that, it's dangerous.

Carly: The answer is…. a little bit, consistently. a little bit, consistently. That's it.

Tami: Hey, we are full of unsexy answers to whatever questions you have.

Carly: got another one for you.

Tami: Yeah. all the shit your grandma told you to do… do that for 20 minutes a day.

A place for everything and everything in its place. Annoying proverb or helpful suggestion?

Tami: Yes, both. I choose both.

Carly: Excellent.

Tami: Can I tell you how I've thought about this one a lot? I find myself saying that to my kid. she's holding something up and she's like, where does this go?

Tami: I'm like, you know what? You need to stop. These rules are for you.

Tami: It makes perfect sense. I know we've talked about this privately, but I have fallen deep down the hole of struggle care. the notion of struggle-care and taking care of your future self. We're not middle-aged. We're future senior citizens. We're building those senior citizens now.

Tami: I read this book called How to Keep House While Drowning. There's a woman. Her name is KC Davis. She's the author. She's on TikTok @domesticblisters. She has this framework where you pick up the trash, you pick up the dishes, you pick up the laundry, then you put things back in their homes. then you find homes for the things that don't yet have homes.

Tami: I'm just gonna let you know if you use that little five-point framework in all your spaces, they're gonna be functional. Are you going to go on a home organizing show with that framework? No. But are you gonna be able to find your stuff? Yes. Are you gonna have clean dishes? Maybe. you're not washing your dishes. You're just putting them where they go. which is not around the house.

Tami: I want to be the person where every single thing has a place. As recently as a few weeks ago, I was walking around the house annoyed saying where is my Bluetooth speaker, where is my Bluetooth? I'm walking around because we all use it. It's all willy-nilly. I discovered at that moment that it doesn't have a home. So it floats and then one of us is always annoyed at everybody else because when it floats, nobody can remember the last place they had it. So I took a basket, just a random basket. I put it on my nightstand and I said to my family, if you find any electronics that belong to me, put them in this basket. for the last few weeks, every time I'm like, where are my headphones? I go to the basket first. about 9 out of 10 times, they're there and I feel like a fucking genius.

Carly: You are a genius. You are a fucking genius.

Tami: I am more than 50. It took me all this time to realize when things do have a home, you're more likely to find them.

Clutter solutions you won’t forget about

Carly: One of the game changers around here has been the basket near my back door. It's a cute basket. I got one that I wanted from The Container Store, the Water Hyacinth bin. it has a beautiful label and it says GTFO…because he's gotta get the fuck outta my house. They belong to other people. That's all the basket is…for things that need to go to somebody else's home. whether that's a bag of food that I'm passing on to my sister's house. if I get something and we're like, yeah, I don't think we're gonna eat that. I'm like, would your kids eat that? Because she lives five minutes away. She'll be like, yeah. Cool. So things like that Just whatever it is. the thing that I borrowed from my mother-in-law needs to go there. the Tupperware. whatever it is.

Tami: I need one of those. Like, where's your permission slip?

Carly: Oh yeah.

Tami: you know what I do when I have a permission slip or I have to bring something to the school office? I tape it to the front door.

Carly: That's the perfect spot for it.

Tami: Like right around, not even an eye level. like my hand is gonna touch it when I touch the, uh, …

Carly: door handle.

Tami: Thank you. The turn knob thing.

Tami: Then I hold it in my hand as I'm driving so I don't forget when I get in the car. or I'll tape stuff to my steering wheel.

Tami: but this get the fuck out box? would you put library books in there when you're done?

Carly: You absolutely could. You absolutely could. And I was thinking of another example and I know you and I had talked about it. I believe more in a group setting, but I also know that you won't mind me talking about it. Those homes for temporary items and library books fell into that, The library books themselves are always in and out, in and out, in and out.

Carly: So it's one of those things where you're like, well, it shouldn't have a home because it doesn't live here. But the thing is library books as a category, do live at your house and very specifically your house.

Tami: very specifically they have an entire shelf in our dining room.

Carly: if they already have a shelf in your dining room… what I would probably suggest is getting a bookend and just having its little section. labeling the shelf that just says ready to go back or back to the library. then, it could be like, whoop, and have its little section.

Tami: You guys I'm a little flushed. That's such a good idea. Am I like do I get a clear bin and do that?

Carly: You sure could.

Tami: Those are the kinds of things you're like, oh shit. Why didn't I think of that?

Carly: It's just like the tiniest tweaks. Tiniest tweaks.

Tami: Well, it's the tiniest tweak. It's like what bugs you about your house? I always like to say that my family is allergic to flat surfaces. it's that same concept of, they don't wanna put it away because we are a very outta sight outta mind household.

Carly: Yeah. Lots of people are, you are not alone, my friends.

Tami: It's a thing.

Carly: With the taping stuff on the front door, I think I might put a bin.

Tami: We have a bin by the door to be like these go back out. one of the things that we have been doing too, is all the things that do have homes that our child doesn't put back in their home by the end of the day. I collect those things and put them in a bin. then when she's like, where's my blah, blah, blah. I can say “for a job, you can get your shoes back. For this, you can get that back.”

Tami: She wears cat ears on a headband. Like every day. It's so cute. And yet every morning, literally every morning, she's like, where are my ears? I kind of want to staple them on your head, but I'm pretty sure I pick them up from inside the couch cushion next to your sock or behind the couch. Right? So it's like, wherever I find stuff, I just put it in the bin.

Carly: I'm like for a home job, you may have the one thing that you ever wear in your hair. It has a home, you just don't put it in there.

Carly: Also things that can work well too, are bribing children with screen time. How about you do 10 minutes of Tidy and then I'll give you 10 minutes of screen time?

Carly: Do you want screen time? How much do you want? Let's Tidy up first.

Tami: One of the things that we just did right before I hopped on this call is we are going on our family vacation. In a slightly different climate. we're leaving the surface of the sun and we're visiting the ocean in a very Northern place.

Tami: It's cold and foggy. And I was like, oh, we have to go through our California winter clothes. long-sleeve t-shirts and leggings that go to your ankles. so I just took all of her clothes that are not summer clothes. And we went through each one. I made her try them all on.

Tami: She got rid of three bags of clothes in like 45 minutes.

Carly: That's amazing.

Tami: We already knew who it was gonna go to. today Pops, because he's the finisher, took them to our neighbor. So that little kid now has big girl clothes to wear.

Carly: Amazing.

Tami: We've been doing this summer of decluttering and it is making this mama's heart go pitter, patter.

Carly: It's a good time. I mean, I'm a fan, but you know, this is my favorite thing to nerd out about,

Tami: oh, you know what else we've been doing? We decluttered our books and we put them in the car. And every time we see a little library, I'll also like there's a little library app and they will tell you exactly where they are. the registered ones. so we just drive by and put a bunch of books in and then I'll let her get one or two things. so that we're having more of a book rotation. We have a book issue in our home.

Carly: It's not an issue.

Tami: I was like in the way that we all are big readers.

Carly: For the record, Tami, I only know one other person that reads as much as Tami.

Tami: Oh, is her name Julia Washington?

Tami: she's also a book collector and I am not.

Carly: That's true. Well, but you have books…

Tami: I have giant stacks and stacks of books and yes, I have books in every room and I'm just saying for the number of books I read versus the number of books I own….

Carly: That's true. Also a fun book suggestion for anyone who lives in the Sacramento region, and who's looking to let go of books for adults. Capital Books takes books and donates them to local incarcerated folks to just promote literacy within the prison system.

Tami: Are you kidding? Capital Books on K?

Carly: Yeah.

Tami: I love that shop.

Carly: Yeah, their owner's doing a lot in the community.

Tami: much like my daughter, when I know where it's going, it's much easier to let it go

Carly: That's where we like to go through our books. My husband reads the classics quickly so that's where we take them.

We had such a good conversation and ended up going a little long with this one. So we decided to make it a two-parter. Tune in next week for part two with Tami Hackbarth we're just gonna pick up right where we left off.

Before I let you go, I want to thank you so much for tuning in today. I'm really excited about this conversation. If you want to learn more about how I can help you head to tidyrevival.com.

If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to subscribe so you'll always have access to the latest episode. We would also love to hear your takeaways. So feel free to tag us at Tidy Revival on Instagram, Facebook, or TikTok. The Tidy Revival podcast is written and hosted by me, Carly Adams, and edited by Brittany McLean. The title song Maverick is by Dresden the Flamingo.

until next time remember…