Ep 7 - Decluttering Through Grief: Featuring Andrea L'Heureux

 

Today’s episode is all about decluttering through grief. I wanted to talk about this as one of the first episodes because this is a fair chunk of the work that home organizers do with their clients. It is REALLY hard work (the hardest work). Clients tend to feel very isolated in general with home organization and decluttering through grief can be especially emotionally difficult and feel isolating.

Like everything else we talk about - the point is to reiterate that you are not alone! These feelings are so so common. That’s why I wanted to bring my friend, Clutter-Free Home Process student and client Andrea L'Heureux on to talk about her experiences decluttering through grief.

You can listen right here, on Apple Podcasts, or you can read the transcription below. Enjoy!

 
 
 
 

Carly: Hello and welcome back to the Tidy Revival podcast. Today's episode is all about decluttering through grief. I wanted to talk about this as one of the first episodes because this is a fair chunk of the work that home organizers do with their clients. It's really hard work. It's the hardest work and clients tend to feel very isolated in general with the work that we do.

When you're decluttering through grief, it can be emotionally difficult and feel very isolating. So like everything else we talk about, the point is to reiterate that you are not alone and these feelings are so, so common. That is why I wanted to bring my friend, Clutter-Free Home Process student, and client, Andrea L'Heureux.

Before we get to our conversation, I want to let you know a little bit about her. I've known Andrea for years. She's a family friend. I absolutely adore her and am very excited to bring you this conversation. Andrea is a lifelong crafter and now quilter and seriously, her quilts are amazing and she loves a good DIY project.

She's also a very fantastic gardener who recently started her own flower subscription with flowers that she grew from seed called Left Field Flower Company. She's based in Hayward, California. If you are in the region, you will want to know more. They're beautiful arrangements. She's also a fan of baseball games, particularly the SF giants, a big fan of naps (Me too!), and yin yoga. Thank you so much, Andrea, for coming on the show!

Andrea:  Thanks for having me. It's been a dream of mine to be a podcast guest. For the number of podcasts that I listen to. It's time. I'm so excited.

Carly: It is absolutely time. But you’ve got to watch out because podcast guesting is like getting a tattoo. You think one is going to be enough? Then just before you know it, it escalated out of control.

Andrea: Hopefully one day we'll have you on one of my podcasts. I don't know what it would be about, but in my podcast in general…  I would talk to you about anything. So it'd be perfect.

Carly:  I mean, we do talk about lots of different things and just know when that day comes…The answer is yes, and I'm in a hundred times. Perfect. So I'm just going to dig in because we have a lot to talk about today and I consider you one of my friends who has a lot of experience with the grief community and who has amazing resources to share with folks when they're going through it.

Carly: I know that this as a topic, in general, is near and dear to your heart. I've heard you speak on it at events and share it online. But I know it stems from your personal experience with grief. So would you please, as we get started, share your story?

Andrea’s Story

Andrea: Yeah, I'd love to. So my younger brother, Richard died in 2016. This is coming up on the six-year anniversary. He died in an accident and he was 21 years old and it was not something that we saw coming in the slightest. It really rocked my family. It rocked my identity in the world to have a significant loss take place when I was 25.

Andrea: It changed everything. It changed how I moved through the world. It was a huge disruption to my life and what was going on at that time. And so like you said, I do talk about it online a lot. I share about it. I share with others. Because I felt so out of it.  It was like I was the only person I knew who had lost a brother. Certainly personally. Maybe someone else through high school, that you could talk to them… but it was something that I had no experience with. Since then I have really tried to open myself up to connect with others in their grief process.

Andrea: Also just normalizing the experience. So people can know, unfortunately, everybody we know, we're going to lose them at some point. no one here makes it out of this humanness alive. This is grief, and death is one of the most normal things that happen in life.

Andrea: In our Western society, we lack a lot of resources and language around how to integrate mourning and grief. It's not about getting over those experiences, but about moving forward with them and carrying these experiences with you. At least that's what I've found to be most helpful.

Andrea: So yeah, I could talk all day about it. I'm so glad we're going to dig in about this aspect.

Carly: It's interesting. As you said, lacking the language around it when I was even doing the research for this episode, this is something that comes up a lot. This is something that I work through regularly and that people in our field are. We're working with clients regularly on this topic, but for all of that, there are not a lot of resources out there specifically when it comes to decluttering through grief. There are some things kind of around it, but I was surprised at the lack of resources compared to what I thought there would be on the topic. and I was surprised at the lack of search volume.

Andrea: For both the client and the person going through it. And as the home organizer, how can you incorporate things that best support your client?

Carly: There are the more common resources like cleaning out someone's house, which is its own thing. Absolutely. And something that people need to know, but if you're not cleaning out a whole house and that's not the process that you're going through then there's a Shockingly low number of resources on the topic.

Carly: I know that we've done a lot of work together and some of it directly has to do with grief-related decluttering and some of it doesn't, but it's absolutely related.

were you ever surprised at how connected grief and decluttering can be?

Andrea: Yeah. I love that question. The first thing that comes to my mind is that as someone who lost somebody unexpectedly, I have found myself wanting to keep almost everything sentimental from family members or loved ones.

Andrea: Since my brother died, I'll keep any voicemail I get. Just in case I lose them and want to go back and listen to their voice. The same thing with cards, or a scrap of paper. like, oh… well, one day I might really treasure this scrap of paper that has their handwriting on it. I think that's totally normal and that's okay. 

Andrea: Also, I'm not saying to keep those things. You find yourself going, do I really need all of these things? You know, maybe I could pick two. So that's something that surprised me in a good way. You're more aware of the fragility of your relationships.

Andrea: And so you just kind of hold onto some things as mementos. If that is how you feel loved or you one day might want that thing. 

Carly: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's really interesting. And it's interesting how you then have to look at it and say, what do I really want to do? What amount of this is a trauma response and how much of that am I okay with digging into? or then like, okay, I know this is a trauma response, so I'm going to choose XYZ. But again, some of it can be related to timing too. 

Carly: So something I get asked a lot is what is the right time to declutter after a family member passes? I know that it's a very personal decision and one that others can't make for you by any means.

What is your advice on the timing and the stages of the process that people need to consider when they're thinking about getting started decluttering?

Andrea: I know this is a super common question when it comes to this topic and unfortunately, there's no one right answer, of course, which I know you mentioned. But in some ways you, you kind of, or I experienced where I wish there was one.

Andrea: I wish there was this sort of prescribed thing I could go through and say, okay, well it's been one year, so now I feel ready to do blank. And it was more about learning that there is no right way. So some advice that I would give, I know for me, I can only really speak for my personal experience. And since it was my brother who died, it wasn't my spouse or my child, I wasn't in the driver's seat as far as when to get started. So my sister and I waited to take cues from our parents when they felt more comfortable. My brother lived in an apartment and so we were with other roommates.

Andrea: So we gathered all of his things and we kept them in bins in our garage. It was very, very painful to think about going through his items in that first year for our family. And then, I mean, it took years after that to even really start being able to go through some of his items and not feel a strong physical response. and that's okay. Also, I want to stress that to go through them and to have that physical response is okay. It feels so uncomfortable for some of us as that happens. so the advice is that there's no timeline. you have to be in communication with the other people that loved your person.

Andrea: Most of the time, I would say that for some it can feel really therapeutic to go through some of their items earlier on in their grieving process. To feel like they are closing what was a painful chapter. if their person was sick, and to clean up or let go of some parts of that process.

Andrea: The advice I have is to know yourself and to go easy on yourself throughout the process. Mostly know that there's no rush there. There doesn't have to be a rush on it. It is so hard. 

Carly: Yeah. It is really hard.

In your experience, what are some of the considerations you would need to make about decluttering through grief that might differ from the usual advice that people get about decluttering?

Andrea: when it comes to the grief decluttering versus every day decluttering that you might have if it's like your pantry or your closet.

Andrea: for one go very easy on yourself because you've probably never done this before.  More specifically, you’ve never done this before with this person. For every person that you lose, your grief will be different. Yeah. Because of the stage of life that you're in and your relationship with that person, every person is different.

Andrea: That looks might look different for different people. Just going to say that we were grateful to lean on Carly for your help in coming in to help us go through some of his items and categorize them. One thing that comes to me about the grief process of it is like you're saying, you know, I can't use all 35 of his shirts. I'm not going to wear them, but the purpose of a shirt is to be worn.

Andrea: And so it was nice for me to go through and pick out some things that either I had a really specific memory of him wearing or that I knew he loved. He also wasn't somebody that was very into physical belongings. He was much more of an experience person. So even some things that I gave him as gifts, I was like, oh, I know he didn't really, it was just a shirt.

Andrea: It's okay that you know that I'm not going to keep it anymore. I did pull out a few things that I really loved and kept them out. I have them in my closet now or have them on my shelf. Some of the books that he read. And I guess that's some advice that I would offer too, is to incorporate those things into your life in a way that feels right for you.

Andrea: At the beginning that would've been incredibly hard for me and not have felt comforting whatsoever, but now it's nice that like, oh, there he is. He's still around. His presence is still real for me, even if they are in those physical items instead of him being here like he should be.

Carly: Mm-hmm absolutely.

Carly: I have a few things from my Grandmothers. I know those relationships are completely different, but It's nice to have those things around him to be able to honor them daily by using them.

Andrea: I started to feel really sad that we hadn't gone through some of his items that I knew that somebody else might be able to enjoy and use.

Andrea: We didn't need his textbooks or some of the books that he had read that maybe we wouldn't have really gotten anything out of keeping. It was freeing to then remember there could be somebody else who got as much joy out of that item as maybe he did. And we are not those people.

Andrea: So let's share them with somebody that might get that joy. And, I kind of think my brother would love that. He'd be like, great. I'm glad, I'm glad it's not sitting in the closet anymore. Yeah. Let that thing go out and serve somebody else, even if it's just you know, a textbook or something that seems simple.

Carly: I love the idea of that new chapter and I know that's helped me. Letting go of lots of things is just thinking about the possible person who is going to find it and be so happy and be able to give it a second life. Absolutely.

In your experience, what are some of the considerations that you need to make about decluttering through grief that might differ from the usual advice?

Carly: What tips did you find helpful through the decluttering process as we were working together? This is not like a toot horn situation. What can people learn from this experience and use if they aren't necessarily wanting to work with an outside person?

Andrea: of course, that's not always feasible for various reasons to have an outside person there with you.

Andrea: I was surprised at how much it did help since it was a group of us, my parents and my sister and I, to have that you. You were there, but just a third-party person. Sort of a mediator and there wasn't even much conversation around it, but just as like no one person, no one grieving person had to be in charge.

Andrea: Yeah. I did feel a surprising amount of peace with that. because there was no like I've got to hold space for my parents or I've got to hold space for my sister. I could just hold space for myself and let you, the home organizer, help with the processing of the physical processing of the items.

Andrea: And we could work on the emotional processing of it. So, if that's feasible, I would recommend looking into it. If you're doing some of it yourself, I think about this idea. It'll be easier if I do it now, or maybe if I wait five years it'll be easier or better, or, Just recently, it's been six years since my brother died.  it's not easier now, but I do feel like I carry it differently.

Andrea: So waiting a little bit to declutter helped me. It wasn't easy. It was just different. I was a little different and my relationship with him was a little different. Letting that be a good thing. The intensity of my grief, from the really early days, feels different.

Andrea: It feels a little less harsh and it still hurts the same. I'm able to carry it a little differently. So when you think you feel these shoulds like, well, we should go through their stuff now, you know, we should do it. We shouldn't keep anything or we should keep everything, whatever those outside influences that we put on ourselves or that we just internalize that we think.

Andrea: Well, there's a way to do this. And unfortunately, there's not a prescriptive way to do this and use that as a powerful thing. There is no way to do this. So you get to choose what feels best for you right now.

Carly: That's so, so powerful. I feel like so many times just in life, we want to know the right way, or people get caught up in the “right way to do things”. So much of life is not about the right or wrong answer. It's just about choosing the path that feels best to you right now and just going for it.

What are some of your biggest self-care tips and or favorite resources to share if somebody is starting their grief journey outside of decluttering?

Andrea: I remember in the very beginning, I was kind of obsessed with finding resources specifically around sibling loss, because that is one of the lesser written topics. They're even tagged as the forgotten mourners. I could talk forever about that. In general, there are so many more modern grief books and resources coming out that I'm so excited about seeing. Six years ago, even I would Google stuff and it would be kind of things that didn't quite fit my grief experience. Doves on the covers of books and waves crashing on the side of a cliff, which is like the imagery of grief as being a certain way that didn't hit for me. And no, I think people have found a lot of help in those things, but as maybe our younger audience is listening and going, like, yeah, I didn't feel like that was helpful.

Andrea: One thing that I would recommend is a book called It's OK That You're Not OK: Meeting Grief and Loss in a Culture That Doesn't Understand by Megan Devine. Anything that they've put out has been so, so helpful. Her community is called Refuge In Grief. If you Google it, you'll definitely find some of her stuff. she's got a podcast as well, I think.

Andrea: Another is called The Dinner Party. When it started, it was  20 and 30-somethings meeting over dinners to connect about their significant loss. Since everything changed in March 2020, it's less about meeting in person and it's more of a platform for grieving 20, 30, and early 40-somethings to find peer community.

Andrea: I would absolutely recommend the work that they're doing. if you know somebody who's grieving, or you yourself are grieving. If it's been 20 years or 2 months, you can still touch down on your relationship with that person, and your grief.

Andrea: So those are some things. I know we'll give my information later, but if anyone has any questions or wants to connect about it, I'm happy to always point people to resources. I love collecting them. I find it does help me feel less alone.

Carly: And I found just in knowing you for years now, you're a natural connector too, between people and resources and that's one of your gifts.

Carly: We will definitely have these linked in the show notes for today, I'm also going to link a podcast series. I'll link the first episode in the series that our mutual friend Tami Hackbarth did on the 100% Guilt-Free Self-Care podcast.

Carly: I really, really appreciate you being here to share your story. I know there are so many people out there who can relate to what you shared and I know these resources are going to help people.

Carly: Just knowing that you're not alone through the process means so much. So thank you for being here, Andrea. I really appreciate you.

Andrea: Thank you for having me.

Carly: Where can folks find you? Let us know all the ways.

Andrea: I'm on Instagram @andrea.made.that

if you’re interested in flowers in the East Bay, my new flower subscription business is called Left Field Flower Co

Andrea: And please reach out if you are listening and you just want to connect about something that I said or a question or anything. I'm so happy to talk about something like grief which is so hard. I have found that talking about it has helped me and that's just my personal experience.

Andrea: I'm so glad you're doing this, Carly. I think it's going to resonate with a lot of people.

Carly: I hope so. Thank you so much. Thank you for tuning in today. If you want to learn more about how I can help you, head to tidyrevival.com to learn how I work with people one on one or in the Clutter-Free Home Process course community.

If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to subscribe so you'll always have access to the latest episode. We would also love to hear your takeaways. Feel free to tag us @tidyrevival on Instagram, Facebook, or TikTok. The Tidy Revival podcast is written and hosted by Carly Adams and edited by Brittany McLean. The title song, Maverick, is by Dresden the Flamingo.

Until next time, remember that…


 
 
 

Links mentioned in this episode

 
 
Tidy Revival Podcast, Mindset, DeclutteringCarly AdamsTidy RevivalDecluttering, grief, loss, family, emotions