Ep 3 - Storage Ideas for Small Spaces: Featuring Julia Washington

Something I love about home organization is that it’s NOT one size fits all. At ALL. People often assume that I use the same strategy in every space, and the same product suggestions, but I always share that although there ARE things that I use all the time, for every favorite product there’s something I use once a year. Everyone’s needs are different, and the strategies you use at first can change over time! That’s why I’m so excited to talk to my friend of 20+ years Julia Washington!

You can listen right here, on Apple Podcasts, or you can read the transcription below. Enjoy!

Carly: Julia Washington is a California based writer, producer, and podcast host in 2017, her story That Face was published in the Penman review. She's the creator and host of Pop Culture Makes Me Jealous a podcast that analyzes pop culture through the lens of race or gender, and sometimes both. And she's also the co-creator and co-host of Still Comfy a show that examines how well pop culture properties have aged.

She's also a client. And I would only disclose that because we've talked about it publicly. She's a student in the Clutter-Free Home Process and I'm obsessed with her podcast projects and show projects. So, Julia, thank you so much for being here.

Julia: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be a guest on your show instead of the other way around. I'm always glad to have you, but you know what I mean?

Carly: You guys, we literally talked last night for Julia's show. And spent the weekend together.

Julia: There's no shortage of Carly Julia time.

Carly: We're so happy about it. It's fantastic. if we seem a little extra comfortable - that is why.

Julia: Yeah, exactly.

Carly: So today we are going to be talking about storage ideas for small spaces and your journey through organization, but before we dig into it, I wanna set the stage for the folks at home. Because first of all, I hope, you know how much I love your apartment. It is cozy and there's art everywhere. I know from working together how carefully curated it is. So can you please share more about your space? Like how big it is and some of the organizational challenges that you were up against when you first moved?

The apartment

Julia: Yes, of course. So our current space that we are in is 975 square feet. Two bedrooms, one bathroom, a very tiny galley kitchen. When we moved in 10 years ago... by we, I mean, myself and my offspring… we moved from a house that was nearly double in size to this apartment. So it was a lot of “okay… well, there's no room for this. I've gotta get rid of this. we're gonna get rid of this” and it was just really hard because there wasn't a lot of storage.

The building is over 50 years old. Let me just throw that out there for anybody who knows anything about like home architecture that already presents challenges because apartments this size, there's one small hall closet that like is kind of pantry style. And then there's this closet situation that's very narrow, but very deep. Things would get lost in there. You were like, “all of the towels will live here”, but then people shove stuff in front of the towels and you're like, “where are the towels? I thought we had towels”. Each bedroom does have a walk-in closet, which is really nice.

However that still presents its own set of challenges. The bathroom just has one small vanity and your storage underneath. But again, you know, I was coming from a house that had two bathrooms and then sharing with a male child and then the kitchen was really tough to pare down because there just isn't a ton of storage there. So it was a lot of figuring out how do we store food and dishes?

Carly: I know there's not a specific pantry there. In any, kitchen that I've worked in with that as a challenge, it's really tough cuz you're making tough choices and it is as though they designed the place with no food in mind.

Julia: The oven - just to paint the picture further - the oven is the type of oven that you would put in a mobile home because the kitchen is so small. It can't accommodate a normal-sized, traditional-sized stove range, which is fine. I'm not hosting Thanksgiving and honestly, do I really want to?

Carly: My first thought definitely went to turkey. I'm like, “I wonder if it can fit a whole turkey?”

Julia: It sure can't.

Carly: Absolutely not. Maybe a game hen possibly.

Julia: Maybe. So that was the biggest challenge I think, was the kitchen. Originally, when we moved in the refrigerator door - just keep painting this picture - the refrigerator door wouldn't open all the way, because it would hit the cabinets because it's a galley.

And so, the refrigerator became an issue because if things got shoved in the back and then you're like sudden, you're like, “why does it… what is that odor?” and then you can't reach it. You can't see it. So there's a problem. When that refrigerator finally died, the owners of the property put in a side-by-side in and I thought, “hallelujah” because now we can actually see what's in their refrigerator. And I know enough to know not to put anything in the very bottom drawer.

Carly: That's so funny when you were saying that I was like, “must be a different fridge because I feel like that wasn't a thing just now”.

Julia: Yeah. we came home, it had died. We came home open and I was like, “why is the front of the refrigerator wet? That's so weird”. Then I opened the freezer and just water came rushing out. It clearly had been dead for a while. Nothing. And I'd just gone grocery shopping. You wanna talk. massive crying. That was it.

Carly: Oh my gosh. That's horrific. I'm so sorry.

Julia: My landlords felt awful. They're like, “we are so sorry”. And I was like, “Hey, at least it died on Memorial day weekend, so you guys get a discount when you buy a new fridge”.

Carly: You're like: “brightside for somebody besides me who gets new fridge”. That part's good, but the groceries - that's so sad.

Julia: That was hard, but yeah, so it has like, you know, and I'm not a super tall person either. So like some of the cabinets are really high up and you can't really fit, a step ladder either. So there's just a lot of like, “okay, what's realistic, what's practical. What's my lifestyle gonna be like living here?” I don't know. When did I first hire you? Was it 2016 when you first started?

Carly: I opened my business in the fall of 2017.

Julia: Okay. So it must have been in 2018 when I finally brought you in, because I was like, I can't necessarily take this anymore. It's just, it doesn't matter what I do. I can't seem to keep things from like, feeling awful.

Getting started organizing

Carly: So let's talk about some of the original organizational projects that you worked on, and it doesn't have to be, necessarily with me, but what were your first priorities and then how did they impact your day to day?

Julia: The main hall closet was kind of a big one because we have a lot of games and it was gonna be a convenient place to keep food. But it's awkward the way that the shelves were put in and they're not all the same length. who designs this hall closet. I don't know who designed this apartment. We love it here though. I'm not gonna lie. So that, that became a revolving project because then as we sort of evolved and what our needs were, so did that space. You know, I'm a bibliophile. I love books. I love to read, I buy books and I rent from the library, but I mostly buy books because as a person who hopes to one day have a book published, I really just gotta support those folks, you know?

Carly: Oh yeah. And you're putting out that energy in the world. That's amazing.

Julia: And so that became an issue because now you have to create storage space. I can't use traditional bookcases because they're too tall. They're too big, you know, getting in upstairs. Figuring out how to make space for that.

Carly: Another thing to note, for the folks at home is that Julia's apartment, it's up a flight of stairs. And then also at the end of like a short or not too, thick of a walkway. So if you have something that's too big, getting it around the corner and through the door is actually logistically impossible.

Julia: Yes actually. And when we were here for a year when I finally upgraded our beds, cuz our beds had been in storage for almost a year and I had made the mistake of putting them… not flat on the ground. So everyone at home, if you ever have to put a bed in storage, lay it flat on the ground, because a year of it being on its side, they both sort of disfigured.

So after almost a year of sleeping on a disfigured bed, it was like, “I can't do this anymore”. So, you know, when they offer free mattress removal I was like, “yes, I will let you pay somebody else to do that for me” because I have no idea how the friends who moved everything in and we didn't have a ton of furniture per se.

I did actually get rid of a lot of the bigger furniture before we moved in here. The only things I had kept were our beds and actually that might have been… it was just our beds, I got rid of the bookcases. When we moved everything into storage, it was a 5’x10’. Whatever couldn't fit in storage went. And that was mostly furniture outside of the beds and a handful full of chairs that I love. So it was turned into the whole: “okay - we're gonna buy something reasonably priced, put it here, and whatever fits on here will live here forever, and then whatever doesn't is going to end up in a garage sale”.

I kid you not I've it felt like for the first year we were here, it felt like maybe every other weekend I was driving to donation. Oh yeah. And I know that can be really frustrating. Just tiring. And there are limitations - if they got full by like a certain (time) - yes, they were open 10-4, but if they got full by noon, they would close, you know? So it's like, you go after work and you're like “dang it!” So it was frustrating.

In my mind, I wanted the dining room to be a dining room so it was figuring out how to make that a dining room. Turns out a dining room table - even one that seats four - really actually is very claustrophobic in this space.

I had converted it into a reading nook at some point, and now it's my office, but it was little things like that. It was figuring out the best use of space. There are huge windows, which are awesome, but it also limits what you can hang on the walls. At one point it finally turned into: “we can't have the TV in front of the window anymore”.

How do we set up the living room so it's not just only two people can sit here? It's really not in a space for entertaining, but I think we finally figured out a configuration of furniture where you actually can have six people comfortably in the room.

Carly: You've really maximized that space, every inch of it. and when you were talking about the space in the walls, I just really wanna stress, Julia loves art. She supports local artists, in all forms and it's really a part of your, I would say your family value system and so not having a ton of wall space is actually… awful.

Julia: It's really hard. I have a ton of art. That's just kind of hanging out, waiting for its day to shine. Someone recommended that I do like a rotating art gallery situation on some of the walls. And I thought that's a actually really good idea. So now I need to take the time. Oh - I should add, we have a storage unit downstairs.

It wasn't originally offered to me when I moved in and then when the gal who was here next door decided to leave, they offered it to me. And that made a huge difference because even though I was working through things, I was able to truly make decisions before donating stuff. It went from: “I don't have anywhere to put this, even though it might be a sentimental item… I don't really wanna get rid of this” kind of situation. It turned into: “okay, now we can actually keep stuff. Maybe seasonal stuff can live in the storage unit”. Turns out I hate going downstairs and getting seasonal stuff out of there. so now it's truly like things that need to live downstairs because we need them when we are downstairs.

Carly: Yeah. And, also brief interjection. If anyone hears like weird noises... I fully know that I'm recording a podcast with my snoring dog in the room, but Aw, I'm on Gimli duty and he's chilling. So I'm just gonna leave him and just know that like I'm not farting. It's Gimli.

Julia: I can't even hear him.

Carly: Thank God. But I was like someone else just in case gonna think I'm just tootin tootin.

And, it's Gimli, I swear. So, yeah, that's storage space downstairs. I mean, Speaking of tootin. I don't wanna toot my own horn, but we really. Kick-ass job in that spot.

Julia: Yes, girl. You were the right person to call for that help because I was like, I have no idea what to do with this space. Carly, please help me. I have all this stuff that I'm just, I there's things like don't wanna part with, but then also I have things like, ice chest that I purchased. Our bikes are hard to get in and out - it just was a mess.

Carly: Will you please, go into slight detail about the existing wooden structure thing?

Julia: That was, it was this weird. It had to have been a project of some kind. Actually, I think my landlords did confirm they had like built this structure for a children's fair that was going on at a school. So it was this weird shape and it was tall. It wasn't - I'm 5’5” - so it's not taller than me, but it would probably went up to my shoulders. It was just very precarious. It was plywood, right? Don't you think it was plywood?

Carly: Yeah. I think so.

Julia: So - not sturdy, not stable. And it was just a whole lot of it. If I'm in here during an earthquake - I will die.

Carly: I mean, yeah. And it also just kind of had the vibe of like a cubby system that didn't quite ever make it to the end of production.

Julia: Yeah. Like, “eventually teeny tiny backpacks are gonna live here” kind of feel. So it just wasn't conducive, and you could walk into the storage unit, which was kind of nice and there were some hooks that you could hang things from. It was just… if the inside of my head lived on the outside… that was it. Bags everywhere.. tabs, you know, tabs, like all the things. All the things - where your mind is going a million miles a minute… materialized in my storage unit

Carly: I can really relate to that. I think that's a very, very accurate description.

Julia: Yeah, it was rough, especially because I loved to ride my bike in my neighborhood. So getting my bike in and out was really hard. And I think when I like jammed the pedal into my calf for the 47th time, that's when I was like, that's it. I don't want to figure it out. I'm gonna call Carly. I can't do this anymore. This is awful.

Carly: I need to put the link for the reel that we did on this project, in the show notes. Yeah, I'll definitely be sure to share that because that's one of my favorite reels, just as far as the fun factor.

Click on the image to view the Instagram Reel!

Julia: There was just so much. You know the show “Hoarders. It wasn't that bad, but it had that vibe.

Carly: Well, it's just the emptying part.

Julia: Yeah. I would put stuff in bags or containers and just throw it in there. No rhyme reason. So then yeah, cuz that's what you do. You're like I don't have the emotional capacity to deal with this right now, but I might one day. So when we came in, I think we spent the whole day, we pulled everything out. We sorted through. I mean, wasn't there a box of mail I was avoiding?

Carly: I wouldn't be surprised because, and here's why: it’s because for every catchall room or garage project - there's always a box of mail.

Julia: It's not just you it's no, it's everybody. Yeah. Cuz 90% of it is junk mail or it turns into the “I’ll deal with this in a minute because there's no deadline” situation. I mean there were just all kinds of goodies too. So that was interesting. And then the racks that you found fit perfectly. And then the detail you took in measuring to make sure that the largest container would be able to fit on the shelf. Like it was so thorough and I thought there's no way in anything I would've been that thorough. So I'm really glad I hired you.

Carly: Measure twice purchase once. So funny, I was just talking about this, I just did that same wire shelving setup in my garage for my donation system to streamline things because we just have a lot of different categories going out. And now I have an errand runner who takes donations and takes care of the weekly shopping for clients and stuff. So I need to streamline it. So it's more than making it clear for me now - there's another person involved. And also I have been giving up my parking spot for piles of donations and the reign of terror has to come to an end. So yeah, it's the same system and it's: categorizing, using vertical space, clear bins, slap a label on it, call it a day.

Julia: I tell you what - those clear bins are a lifesaver cuz something I've learned in the time we've worked together is - if I can't see it, it doesn't exist. But it does exist.

Carly: That's really common and something. I talk with people all (the time) about because for some people clear bins stress them out. But I would say that the folks that I work with, that's probably like a 20% situation. And for most people, clear bins are the answer. It just depends on your personality. You'll know gut feeling like “which one do I do?” Which one is better to you? A wicker basket that you can't see in with a label, or a clear bin with a label? Just picture them both by category and people know which one works better for them. Just go with that one.

Shifting organization strategies

Carly: So as you've lived in your apartment longer, and you said you've been there for 10 years, right? Amazing. and we all know that the whole world shifted a little bit, two years ago. so what are some of the shifts that you made along the way in your organization strategy?

Julia: I realized I still had too much stuff. I mean, that's the realization everybody has, but what it really came down to was: “oh, this doesn't flow well for the way that we live when we aren't allowed to leave the house”. And obviously, that's not a consideration we've ever made before because yeah. When would we ever have considered that? We would never be able to leave the house. Yeah. So it turned into, “how can we make this more suitable?” I was working 70 hours a week, but my child was home 24/7 so coming home… it's like: “here's this blob of stuff you've done to my house" and I'm tired. And I wanted to sit right there. What did you do? So it turned into: “okay - how can we like make this a little bit better, section off a little bit better?” So we can have divided spaces. It's open concept in the front of the apartment and the bedrooms are in the back. Everything just felt messy, visually. So like internally, the cabinets we had spent time organizing, the closets we had spent organizing - how to make that work.

So I reorganized my closet and I bought some more bookcases to sort of like clean up the look a little bit. I bought a bunch of - Targets should endorse me because those cube shelves by Threshold is literally like the bulk of the furniture in my house. They worked really well because it really ended up being three levels of book storage rather than just the cubes. Then we got a dog -

Carly: Jo!!!!

Julia: She's the sweetest and she's super chill, but she also was used to bigger space. So then it was like: “well, how can we make this also pet friendly?” So we did. We did another round of decluttering and that's when I turned the dining room into the reading nook and put a big cozy chair in there, and put a record player in there and just lined it with bookcases. That way it could be a space where I could sit and be separated from my child and still be able to digest the day and sort of decompress, and that was really helpful. The other thing that we did was - we used to have buckets to put our shoes in. Oh, Uhhuh. No, I don't know why I ever thought that was a good idea. So then I bought shoe racks for us to pile our shoes up on, and that was really nice too. That cleaned up that space really, really well.

Carly: Oh yeah. It looks fantastic. And you guys are you're both shoe people, not in like. It's not like, whoa, that's a whole lot of shoes. It's not like that. But you both, you know, it's not like two pairs of shoes.

Julia: Yeah, exactly.

Carly: That's awesome.

Julia: We do have a lot of shoes. He definitely has a thing for shoes, which is totally fine. They just are really good at making everything look messy when they're not in order.

Carly: Yeah, shoes are hard. I mean, we also have two people in our house and the shoes are like a constant thing that I feel like I'm just kind of putting back in their little home, just a little bit.

Julia: Yeah. So I would say the last thing, the other big thing that we did was we ended up doing. fabric cubes in the hall storage closets rather than just having things sort of piled - not piled in - they were organized, every cabinet was a specific thing. but then we decided to put, or I decided cuz I'm the adult house, to put everything in like fabric cubes.

So it was very easy to go from: “I thought I put the toolbox, that's this weird odd shape in this cabinet. And it's the gray box at the back of the” - you know what I mean? It just made it so much easier to put everything in the same-sized container.

Carly: Yeah. I, wholeheartedly agree with that strategy.

Julia: Cause before it was just like the, you know, everything was organized, but there wasn't containment in that organization, if that makes sense.

Carly: Yeah. Yeah. Ugh. I love it.

Storage ideas for small spaces

Carly: So we know what everyone is here for. What are some of your favorite storage ideas for small spaces that you've found helpful that maybe we haven't covered?

Julia: So I was thinking - things that I think are really helpful in a small space… the cube storage was a big one actually, because everything still looks nice. And then I could use the top, because they come in different sizes too.

Oh - this is something that I did during the pandemic - I bought one of the four cubed ones and put it in my closet. That was really helpful. Another thing I did to the rolling carts that have like an lid on them, I don't know if I would call it an art cart. I've seen a lot of Instagrammers use 'em to put their books on for pictures. but I found one that has like this flat, like wooden top. So the top shelf can actually be like sealed off.

Carly: Cute.

Julia: That was really helpful because when I had to work on something, but I wanted to watch TV, but I also didn't wanna have to unpack the closet to pull out what it was - I moved everything into that. Namely my art supplies and then, because it rolls, I can move it anywhere. And two, because of that wooden top, that's now like my table to paint.

Carly: Mm, that's nice. That's really smart.

Julia: That was a huge help. The other thing that we did that was kind of, I felt like a hack. I bought these… technically they're ottomans. They're open, they're a skinny cylinder type and that's where I store all of our blankets. It was really hard to find something that wasn't huge. A lot of ottomans are made for bigger houses, so it took a minute, but I found some where I could store our blankets in.

So I have the two blankets that live on the couch for decorative purposes, and then all of the actual cozy blankets are in those containers. So now I don't just have a plastic container on the side of my couch.

Carly: I mean, you know, fair enough. You gotta do what you gotta do.

Julia: Yeah. You really do.

Carly: Going back a little bit, but in the closet you said that you used, a four cube storage system. What did you put in it?

Julia: So on top of it, I put all of the candles that smell really good and like wax melt. So that way my closet always smells really good love. So my clothes smell really good, even though they're clean, they sometimes you want a little extra. Yeah. And then it was my sort of life hack. So I didn't have to get rid of more books.

Let’s talk more about the closet

Carly: Another thing about the closet and books that I would love for you to share is the top portion.

Julia: Oh yeah. So I'm really lucky in my walk-in closet, there's a top shelf. So what I did was that originally it was just all lined with books and then we had like a small earthquake in 2021, I think. And that's my fear is that a pile of books is gonna fall on me and I'm gonna die. Like, sorry.

Carly: You never have to apologize for that fear.

Julia: Thank you. so I was like, I need to go through these and sort of limit it. And then the space where I don't stand a lot will be where the books are. Like, that was my logic. And so I reduced how many books, but there's still a lot of books up there. It fits a lot of books. And then what I did, because I was struggling with where to keep my sheets - I bought another set of fabric cubes and put my sheets in those. And then that made space for my sheets to live in my closet.

Carly: Boom. I love it.

Julia: And it's cute. It's a cute little polka.box. No one would ever know. Well, if I actually knew how to fold a fitted sheet, no one would ever know.

Carly: That's not really a skill that you need. I'm just gonna tell you straight up. I only really learned it for this role.

Julia: Oh, okay.

Carly: Because I knew at some point someone was gonna expect me to know what I was doing.

Julia: Oh, I love that.

Carly: So I watched some YouTube and if anybody else is listening to this, it will not be in the show notes. You're gonna have to DM me. If you want a video that shows you how to fold different things. I found a cool one on YouTube that I still suggest to clients. And it's, it was basically a training video for youth in the hospitality industry, from what I can tell . They did a great job.

Julia: Oh, another thing I was gonna tell you. I created a little storage space underneath my couch, because you know, that had enough space for me to like hide things and organize. All of my workout equipment I put in a tray underneath the couch, and I always look for furniture that can double as storage So I have these - instead of a traditional media center that people buy for their TVs. - this is more of - the bottom part is cabinets. Then the top part is open or the middle part is open. And then the top part acts as a shelf and that's been huge too, because it creates space. So it's always about how can you create storage because you probably won't have any.

Carly: Yeah. A hundred percent.

Julia: It's little things like that. And Ikea's really good for stuff like - if Target doesn't have what you want or The Container - I don't know what The Container Store sells other than what you bring to my house - but Ikea was a huge lifesaver in terms of like finding things that were the right size. Cuz a lot of furniture is huge too.

Carly: Way too big.

Julia: I don't understand it. Even if I lived in a big house, I don't think I would be comfortable with that. So Ikea was a huge lifesaver because of the variety of sizes of cute furniture. I mean, then you have to put it together, but it's fine.

Carly: Yeah. And if you really, really can't stand putting it together, then hire a TaskRabbit to. Yeah, or do it. Completely agree about Ikea. They have, when we had an apartment, we had this cool table that was essentially the size of a poker table. So it’s small, seats four, and then on either side there were little leaves that were inside the table and you had to kind of like lift up the side and gently pull them out one on each side and then it opened up to seat six. It was really good for our tiny, tiny apartment, which I realized was like two-thirds the size of your apartment.

Julia: Yeah. Your apartment was a lot smaller. I think it's just the whole front half of my apartment actually, now that I think about it. Yeah. That makes sense.

So, it really is all about how can you create storage with items that don't feel overwhelming. And with furniture that's really hard to do because furniture is intended to be huge, right? Which I don't understand. That's why I think the cube storage turned out really well, because it doesn't feel like it's taking up a lot of space when I've utilized the very top for this is where all my jewelry's gonna live. This is where all my - I have these things called book sleeves. So I have a box that a decorative box where I've put my book sleeves in. That looks cute, cuz they're all different fabrics. And then on the others, on another wall with all of the cubes, I stack more books on top and then I put picture frames.

I have these cute little chests (I actually don't know what's in them, probably Christmas ornaments) that I used to put my TV on in my bedroom, so that's more storage. It's just finding ways to create storage space without it feeling like it's overwhelming your apartment. And that's where measuring really does come in handy too. Measuring always comes in handy.

Carly: Always measure before you buy guys. Always measure before you buy.

Julia: Put that on a t-shirt.

Carly: Another idea that I've seen in other homes that I really love, but it gets back to books and potential earthquakes. Just thinking about it - I had a friend in their apartment, this was in Brooklyn, they had bookshelves, but it was just one shelf really close to the top of the ceiling. And then it was just one big row of books, all down the hallway. It was really cool. You know, that's really only good if you are not in an earthquake prone area. And on that note, I do want to just so the folks at home know, I spent like 15 years in the bay area, so I'm very like earthquake sensitive, but I promise you that Julia was not in a quake zone. That was a weird fluke in 2021.

Julia: Yeah. That was a weird fluke. Yeah, that was a weird fluke, but it's always good to make sure, if you can anchor stuff to the wall, they are very good about giving you the plastic part. If you can't find a stud in your wall to put it in, so you can anchor the furniture. Even if you don't have littles in your house, that's still really important because if you're like me and you need assistance getting up off the ground after looking at the bottom shelf of your bookcase, you don't want it to topple over on you.

Carly: Yeah. We can't be taken out like that guys. Please anchor your furniture. Yeah. Safety first.

Julia: Safety never takes a holiday.

If you moved in knowing what you know now about organizing your apartment, what would you have done right away?

Julia: I 100% would've measured everything that was already built in cabinets, all of it. Then purchased items based on that. Not a lot of items right away, but knowing how we were living at the time, purchased containers for where to store the food and how to store the food. Because it's really hard - the cabinets in the kitchen are so deep. But the kitchen isn't wide enough to get all the way back there in the cabinet. I needed something to be able to actually grab onto and pull out - I learned that a year after I lived here. So I would've done stuff like that. And I would've probably taken my time moving items in. What we did do was just clean out the storage unit and dump everything in the living room. I do not recommend.

Carly: That's really good advice.

Julia: Take your time room by room. I would do it room by room too because then you have a better understanding rather than trying to figure out how to do the whole house. You're doing it room by room. So it's easier to digest and easier to think about.

Carly: Yeah, absolutely. And there might be some strategies that you learn from the first room that you end up applying to the third or fifth room or whatever the case may be.

Julia: If I had like some sort of rough draft layout of the apartment, I probably would have sketched out little things here and there too. Where should I put the bed? Because the bedrooms are kind of a weird shape. I've shifted the bed a couple of times, and now I've shifted the bed around so many times that I hate it. And the way I had the bed when I first moved in, I can't find that sweet spot. So I'm annoyed because it was perfect. It was right under the fan to get the breeze of the fan. But because I moved the bed around so much trying to figure out the best way to live in that room, I don't know where that sweet spot is anymore. Makes me sad.

So I probably would've done a quick map out of like: “what furniture do I have? How much stuff do we have? And where can I fit everything?” Because like I said earlier I made sections in the house. So like the, where the couches are, it cuts like probably two-thirds into the room. So that way we have an area where we can take off our shoes and hang up our coats.

Carly: Yeah. You've used the couch to kind of section off a little mud room for yourself essentially.

Julia: Correct.

Carly: And it's cute as hell.

Julia: Thanks. so I probably would've thought about those things more in-depth.

Carly: That totally makes sense.

Julia: My son had bunk beds at the time. I didn't think that the bunk beds weren't gonna work. yeah, they did. They did not. Cuz the top bunk was very close to the fan.

Carly: That's really hard. We've had a kiddo fan incident in my family and let's just say they're okay. But if you can avoid it - highly recommend.

Julia: I thought the ceilings were higher than they were. This is why measuring is important.

Carly: It's funny, ceiling height, you kind of take it for granted. You just assume it's gonna be a certain way. And then sometimes you're unpleasantly surprised by how different it is. So, yeah, absolutely agree. And that can be a two person measuring situation.

Julia: Yeah, it really is because depending on the age of where you're moving, like I said, this building is over 50 years old.

What is your biggest advice for somebody who's thinking about working with an organizer for the first time?

Julia: Don't think just do. Cause honestly, you're gonna get in your head about it. You're gonna get in your head about it. You're gonna start doing all the things that we're conditioned to do when it comes to allowing somebody to come into our home and see our stuff, which is: “this can't look like this for strangers.”

Honestly, that's the whole point of bringing in an organizer. So it doesn't look like this for strangers, but also, so it doesn't look like that for you. It's not about the strangers - it's about you. The organizer isn't really gonna be a stranger forever. So allowing them to come in and just see everything is okay.

Because that's what they need to better understand what it. And how they can help you. What is the problem and how can I help you? Cause everyone's organizing needs are different. You and I've talked about that a lot.

Carly: Oh yeah.

Julia: Like everyone's organizing needs are different. If you don't allow the organizer to fully understand by visually seeing whether it's in pictures - pictures, work too! Pictures are less embarrassing feeling. You know?

Carly: Yeah, it's absolutely. right. And, I will say in that way, We're like doctors, like we've seen everything. don't worry. We're not personalizing any of it.

Julia: 90% of the time, I'm pretty sure, like every time I've talked to you after the fact when you've helped me with something, when I'm like: “do you remember?” And you're like: “no”. So take comfort in knowing that once the job is done, it doesn't really stick. I mean it doesn't stick in the way that we think it's gonna stick, right? We think we're gonna traumatize the organizer because they've just come into our horrific mess and we're so embarrassed and we're so not just embarrassed, but we feel like failures because we're supposed to be able to do these things and manage these things.

But the reality is, is life's hard. And the organizers do not internalize anything about you.

Carly: No.

Julia: So once that job is done, they move on to the next job.

Carly: And something for you to understand at home too, is if you're nodding your head, is that everyone that comes to us starts at the same place. And half of us also started in the same place. You know, that's why I talk about it very freely, this is all a learned skill for me because I was a chronically disorganized person.

Julia: Which I think is our natural inclination. Because when I think about people who are really organized, they're very disciplined. They had to work for it. So it's not like we're naturals. I mean, maybe there's that one off.

Carly: Yeah. Some people really, really are. I had to work hard for it.

Julia: Yeah, same.

Carly: Yeah. That's not my natural state.

Julia: And even then, before I saw you over the weekend, I think we mentioned that we saw each other over the weekend. I still like managed to create a pile of stuff that I was like avoiding. So it's still, once you organized, and once you have systems in place, you're still gonna potentially create clutter piles, but the nice thing is, once you have systems in place now, so it doesn't take all day. It takes five minutes.

Carly: Hundred percent.

Julia: That's right. That's I think the biggest benefit.

Carly: Yeah, exactly. Things have homes. And then if they don't, then you can easily identify what's clutter versus looking at everything and saying": “okay, this is all clutter”.

Julia: Yeah. Like right now I'm staring at a bunch of boxes because I haven't put myself in a position to break 'em down and get 'em out yet.

Carly: My desk looks like a little Tasmanian devil ran through it. I've just been pulling things out and referencing, but haven't been tidying up at night. So see, you know, when we all have our things that we're working on and that's fine too.

Final thoughts you would like to share?

Julia: I think it's perfectly normal to be scared about getting your house organized or your space organized, especially when you live in a small space. I know for a while, for me, I felt comfort in the clutter. That was really like, when things weren't cluttered, it was like: “well, what do I do now?” Now there's all this space where I used to worry about the clutter. And now that the clutter's gone, I have all this space within myself. What do I do with it? And like, that was kind of scary but then I filled the space with adding more shows to my list.

It took awhile to get comfortable in having that space. At first I thought about it as being a void. Well, now I have this void and then I started working on like, well, it's not a void. Why are you calling it a void? Like, let's talk about it. Let's figure this out. And then it eventually turned into like: “no, this is how you're supposed to feel. You don't have to worry about clutter.”

Carly: Yeah, a hundred percent. Thank you so much for, coming today and for sharing because I really, really appreciate it.

Julia: Happy to.

Carly: Where can folks find you? Listen to your shows, support you and learn more.

Julia: You can find me on Instagram. That is the platform I am the most active on. my handle is thejuliawashington. The show is called Pop Culture Makes Me Jealous. You can find us on all platforms where you find your podcasts. We're also on Instagram at popculturemakesmejealous. We post all kinds of fun stuff.

We have a website, popculturemakesmejealous.com. You can also listen to the show there directly as well. We've got merch, we've got a Patreon club. If people want to be a part of that, we're just a community of like-minded folks who love pop culture, but also kind of get exhausted by the representation - because some of it's real bad, so that's a fun community.

We host events, we do all kinds of things. We're getting ready to start a book club, which I'm very excited about cuz we will focus on book-to-screen adaptations, which is my baby. Like, if that's the thing I could do the rest of my life - study book-to-screen adaptations, I would. And yeah, I'm pretty accessible in the DMS, unless somebody's like not a nice person or comes off like kind of like a jerk. I'm not gonna respond to that, cause I don't have that kind of energy, but I would love to connect with people and they can listen to this show to get to know more about us. I'm gonna plug some of our episodes. Is that okay?

Carly: Yeah!!

Julia: So Carly's been on for several episodes, which I love. She came on for Moxie, which is a book-to-screen adaptation.

She was one of our featured guests for the Little Women episode. She was on several episodes during season three, when we were talking about, high school movies; 10 Things I Hate About You, She's All That, and Can't Hardly Wait. Super fun. She's a great guest, always a joy to have on the show.

If that's not your jam, race and gender is not your jam, we have a show called Still Comfy. My co-host and I, Natalie Katona go live on Instagram every Tuesday to talk about a pop culture property to see if it's aged well. And if it didn't age well, do we still love it? Like, do we still love it? And then we go live on YouTube every other Monday. So, plenty of opportunities to get your pop culture past present fixes through me.

Carly: Love. And I have to give a special plug because I'm a Patreon member of, the Pop Culture Makes Me Jealous community, and it's a lot of fun, so highly recommend.

Julia: Oh, thanks friend.

Carly: Thank you again, Julia. I appreciate you.

Julia: Yeah. I'd love to come back.

Carly: Thank you so much for tuning in today. If you wanna learn more about how I can help you head to TidyRevival.com to learn more about how I work with people, one-on-one or in the Clutter-Free Home Process course community.

If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to subscribe, so you'll always have access to the latest episode. We would also love to hear your takeaways. Feel free to tag us at TidyRevival on Instagram, Facebook, or TikTok. The Tidy Revival podcast is written and hosted by Carly Adams and edited by Brittany McLean. Title song. Maverick is by Dresden the Flamingo. And until next time, remember that….